What if the Beach Boys had played Monterey?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by RayistaGeoff, Aug 14, 2005.

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  1. tedhead

    tedhead Forum Resident

    Location:
    Space City
    I'm still wondering what would have happened if Arthur Lee and Love had taken a break from recording Forever Changes, and showed the world what made them so special during their 66-67 peak. Unfortunately there is no live record of that amazing lineup. According to Johnny Echols, they got into it with Lou Adler when they didn't make him look important enough in front of his two dates. It also didn't help that Arthur didn't like opening for anyone, and would have balked at not getting paid. But that performance could have made history instead of them being known as a well respected cult band!
     
  2. davenav

    davenav High Plains Grifter

    Location:
    Louisville, KY USA
    Well, yes..,

    But, as people keep saying - one listen to the Hawaii performance should be sufficient to make one realize that following, say, Hendrix would have been a disaster.

    Yes, they became a great touring act later, but at that time they were kicking anything *but* butt.
     
  3. drbeachboy

    drbeachboy Forum Resident

    Hawaii was more of an experiment of Brian's than what they were actually doing in their regular set. I think with having both Brian and Bruce on stage, they would have had enough instrumentation on stage to sound fine. Who is to say David Crosby wouldn't have joined in to help out. ;)
     
  4. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    Don't overlook that in 1967 The Monkees were successful live performers, performing songs that had heavy studio augmentation.
     
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  5. Atmospheric

    Atmospheric Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eugene
    Jeebus, can't anyone read?

    As I said, "If they played well..."

    Who knows how well they might have played. By all accounts the Mamas & Papas stunk the place up.

    However, my original point had to do with relative gravitas of three acts: two of which played Monterey, and one which did not. I stand by those sentiments.

    I celebrate your right to hold a different opinion, even if it happens to be off topic.
     
  6. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    The fact that they still had an occasional mild hit is a pretty low bar for whether or not they were passé. The sales and chart performance of their records rapidly and significantly decreased, and that is obviously indicative of decreased popularity with the general public. Clearly, a significant amount of record buyers viewed them as passé.
     
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  7. Olompali

    Olompali Forum Resident

    The thing that was detrimentally passe about the band at the time of Monterey (and even a bit before) was the name Beach Boys.
    It may still hinder them a bit
     
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  8. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    In 1966, their name didn't hinder them in earning a number one record, five years after their 1961 debut single. Why would things be any different in 1967?
     
  9. nicotinecaffeine

    nicotinecaffeine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Walton, KY
    I believe Brian Wilson's decision not to play it - if that is even true - was the right one. They simply weren't ready to do their latest material in the necessary fashion to compete with those on the bill. Not to mention the Hawaii tapes clearly indicate they were nowhere near ready for prime time. In fact, their live performances in 1965 were far more interesting by comparison.

    Yeah, the Ann Arbor tape proves they could perform the material - but, it certainly didn't have anywhere near the amount of ass compared to when they finally added some musicians a year or so later.

    Without the "Mk III" Beach Boys (1968-69), I strongly believe they would have bombed at Monterey.

    Mk I - Wilson-era live
    Mk II - Johnston-era live
    MK III - With small orchestral backup.
     
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  10. drbeachboy

    drbeachboy Forum Resident

    This a lot of would've, could've, should've, but again this all comes down to a perception in one country. A number 20 here was a number one in GB. Another was ignored here altogether, but was a number 5 in GB. Another one ignored completely here was number 1 in Australia and top 10 in GB. Just remember, people believe what they were reading and only reading here. I am not that pompous to believe that the fans in U.S. are the only ones that count.
     
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  11. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    Well, for starters, they were. No US number one again until the novelty single Kokomo.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
  12. drbeachboy

    drbeachboy Forum Resident

    Amazing, that they couldn't or didn't think of that a year earlier, especially how they did that so much in the studio from 65-66.
     
  13. Olompali

    Olompali Forum Resident

    Conversely, do you seriously think the song, Good Vibrations, was a hit because of their name?
    It was an instant classic standing on its own merits.
    Boys is a bad image for street cred (which ruled in late 60's)
    Imagine, years later, if it was Motley Boys, The Stray Boys, Radiohead Boys... El floppo.

    I think it hurt Los Lonely Boys a bit among the rock crowd.
     
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  14. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    We're talking about The Beach Boys here, not the history of pop and rock music in general. The Beach Boys are a pop band who rocks. The two ingredients, pop and rock, are virtually inseparable from their U.S. chart success. Even their charting ballads virtually always feature a driving back beat or prominent drumming. "Barbara Ann" relies upon an ashtray for effect, but the back beat idea still carries over to the party recording.

    The band established themselves as a rock outfit early in their career. That is the style of music that people in the U. S. identify with them. When they get away from rock and heavy back beats, it generally makes it more difficult for the masses to accept them.
     
  15. Olompali

    Olompali Forum Resident

    We're talking about Monterey Pop here which figures strongly in the history of pop and rock music in general.
     
  16. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    They were what: different? How so?

    Not garnering a number one has nothing to do with their name. They hit US pop #5 in 1976 as The Beach Boys and US pop #1 in 1988 as The Beach Boys with new material that people liked.

    The only one who did a novelty single was Brian Wilson, who was late to the game with the Spanish version of "Kokomo".
     
  17. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    You haven't supported with any evidence your assertion that their name hurt them.
     
  18. supermd

    supermd Senior Member

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    With a little more practice, they could have had a great Monterey set. All this "look at the Hawaii performance" is just one set of shows. Thinking they couldn't improve with more practice is silly. Stop bringing up the quality of a past performance. Look what they did with the fake live 1967 album in LA. Those are live performances and they sound great. I happen to love the mellow arrangements Brian gave everything in Hawaii. It's that exact style that would have made them stand out. It would have grooved in a good way.
     
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  19. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I wasn't suggesting they are. I thought the discussion was about how they were perceived in the US in the late 60s, and whether Monterrey would have altered that perception. In the US, they were considered passé.
     
  20. Olompali

    Olompali Forum Resident

    Oh brother.. Not playing tag in this debate. You think their band name gives them gravitas, so be it.
    Tattoo
     
  21. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    If you read the liner notes to the Endless Harmony collection, you'll see that the "Hawaii performance" was neither live nor recorded in Hawaii. It was recorded at Wally Heider's studio in LA after the live Hawaii tapes "we're deemed unusable by the group" because "the taping was beset by technical difficulties." Right. So they met at Heider's a few weeks later to record, but "the project was abandoned soon thereafter." The phoney thank you's at the close of the songs reveals that this exercise was intended to create a live album out of those controlled studio sessions. They could have used the applause from that Beatles album about pepper that had come out a few months earlier.
    "Scratch it Carl, scratch it."
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
  22. davenav

    davenav High Plains Grifter

    Location:
    Louisville, KY USA
    Uh, I can read.

    Which is why I said what I said.

    The Hawaii concert shows what they would have sounded like.

    I don't know what the Mamas & Papas have to do with it - talk about off-topic!
     
  23. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    When you earn hit after hit from 1962 to 1966, your name automatically has gravitas. We're not talking about a punk band who made up their name in the spirit of self parody. The Beach Boys had immense class from day 1, due to Murry Wilson's management and the music people who he did business with, such as Capitol Records.
     
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  24. Aftermath

    Aftermath Senior Member

    I remember reading something about a proposed name change to the Beach Men at one point. :laugh:

    As for the whole thing with Monterey and whether it was a lost opportunity, it's just a damned shame everything fell apart with Smile. :shake: I think if they'd been able to release an album with songs as strong as Our Prayer, Heroes and Villains, Surfs Up, Child is Father of the Man, and Cabinessence on it, they would have somehow found a way to make them work at Monterey.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
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  25. jdlaw

    jdlaw Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan
    Everyone keeps bashing on the two Hawaii 1967 concerts, and using them as examples of why the Beach Boys wouldn't have performed well at Monterey Pop. I clearly need to re-listen to them, because I remember liking what I heard.
     
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