Question on Audiophile Power Outlet Installation

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by LeeS, Jan 15, 2013.

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  1. Lashing

    Lashing Well-Known Member

    This is all getting flush with confusion again. The main point is a 50 cent contractor outlet is junk. ANY 20 amp Industrial grade outlet will be vastly superior in build quality. That's where many get confused. Going from a 50 cent outlet to a boutique audiophile outlet will have people beleiving in hype. First go to a standard industrial grade outlet. Even if your line is 15 amp use a 20 amp outlet as the contacts will be thicker. Now compare boutique. Apples to apples.

    But to replace your 50 cent outlet with a $200 outlet is going to murk the waters substantially since its like comparing tissue paper to parchment. Its not the brand its a different product entirely.
     
  2. blakep

    blakep Senior Member

    Just trying to limit the "confusion" but, as was pointed out earlier, this is not the case assuming you are using the same receptacle within a manufacturer's line, the only difference being 15 amp vs. 20 amp.

    (Only exception I am aware of is HBL 5262 and HBL 5362-also as stated above, and it has nothing to do with size or thickness of contacts.)

    Your other points are valid though and I don't disagree. One should definitely compare the higher quality general market receptacles to boutique to ascertain differences.
     
  3. Lashing

    Lashing Well-Known Member


    You are totally wrong here. Please call an electric supply company and ask. There are many "grades" of both 15 and 20 amp outlets on the general market. You can search this online. Notice the numbers associated with various outlets. There are grades of each. If you want a real easy example go to home depot and grab a cheap 15 amp outlet then the orange hospital grade isolated ground 15 amp. HUGE difference. And then grab the leviton $3 15 amp outlet. Again its in between and the contacts are totally different than the cheapest contractor outlet. Its not just 15 vs 20 as you state. NOT AT ALL
     
  4. GuildX700

    GuildX700 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    This is against code.
     
  5. blakep

    blakep Senior Member

    True, but that is not what you said in your previous post. You said "Even if your line is 15 amp use a 20 amp outlet as the contacts will be thicker." Which is not the case if you compare, say, a Leviton 5262 to a 5362 or a Pass and Seymour 5242 to a 5342. Same receptacles in 15 amp and 20 amp version.

    As you said, let's keep the confusion down and compare apples to apples.

    Believe me, I am fully aware that there are many grades of receptacles out there. I've compared a lot of them.
     
  6. Lashing

    Lashing Well-Known Member

    not its not. There is not danger in having a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp line and home owners can do it all they want. However it shoudl be changed back to a 15 amp outlet for the next homeowner so they dont think its a 20 amp line. Of course, the best thing to do is have min 12 gauge copper and use a 20 amp breaker too and that's the end of any possible confusion.

    I think people just want to argue here.
     
  7. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    very true
     
  8. GuildX700

    GuildX700 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    No danger? Tell that to the building inspector.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    He was not referring to plugging in a component that needs a 20 amp draw - just using a 20 amp outlet.
     
  10. GuildX700

    GuildX700 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    A 20 amp outlet allows a 20 amp device to be plugged in. If that happens by accident there is the possibility of overheating the circuit and a fire. That is why code does not allow a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit.
     
    F1nut likes this.
  11. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I completely agree with you.

    Lashing also said "However it shoudl be changed back to a 15 amp outlet for the next homeowner so they dont think its a 20 amp line. "

    I don't think we are arguing about that.
     
  12. GuildX700

    GuildX700 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I also wonder about home insurance not covering loss if a fire was proved to be a direct result of the 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit.
     
  13. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Good point. I'm sure if they could find that loophole they would nix payment.
     
  14. GuildX700

    GuildX700 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    One thing I know for sure, you will not pass a home inspection when going for a home sale with a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit, nor will you if the polarity of the outlets are not correct.

    Been there, had it happen with my mom's house 3 years ago. Over half the outlets had the neutral wrong, and one was a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit. I had to remedy all that or the sale was off.
     
  15. jea48

    jea48 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest, USA
  16. GuildX700

    GuildX700 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
  17. jea48

    jea48 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    I tried my best to explain to a guy on another forum why it was not safe to have a 30 amp breaker, (instead of the 20 amp Code compliant breaker), for the protection of a 20 amp dedicated branch circuit with a connected NEMA 5-20R 20 amp duplex receptacle.

    He contended because he used #10 NM-B cable, (Romex is a manufactured trade name of), that it was safe. Nope he swore up and down his monster amp sounded better with the 30 amp breaker than the 20 amp breaker it replaced. The guy even said a rep of the manufacture of the amp told him it would sound better with a 30 amp breaker. So he said.....

    It didn't matter he voided the UL Listing on the 20 amp duplex receptacle. It didn't matter the manufacture of the receptacle did not design or safety test it connected to a 30 amp branch circuit.
    No matter how hard I tried to explain to him the contacts and other associated current carrying parts inside a 15, 20, and 30 amp breaker are exactly the same, that only the thermal and magnetic trip unit settings are different. I even showed him the sale prices at HD were the same for 15, 20, and 30 amp Square D QO breakers.
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-QO-15-Amp-Single-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-QO115CP/100061177

    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-QO-20-Amp-Single-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-QO120CP/100028706

    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-QO-30-Amp-Single-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-QO130CP/202353302

    I even explained to him a 20 amp breaker will pass short spurts of connected load current of over 120 amps all day long. And a 30 amp breaker will pass short spurts of connected load current of over 300 amps all day long.
    I even supplied this Link.
    http://goodsonengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/CircuitBreakerMyths_web.pdf

    And this one.

    http://www.electrical-forensics.com/CircuitBreakers/CircuitBreakers.html
    I then explained,
    So a 20 amp receptacle installed on a 30 amp breaker could be 135% overloaded for up to an hour before it is supposed to trip open. 30 amps X 135% = 40.5 amps.
    And it has to trip open if overloaded by 200% in 2 minute. 30 amps X 200% = 60 amps.
    Compared to a 20 amp breaker X 135% = 27 amps. And a 20 amp breaker X 200% = 40 amps.

    Nope still didn't matter. His monster amp sounded better when connected to the 30 amp breaker. Did I mention the plug the manufacture supplied on the amp's captive 10/3 cord is a NEMA 5-15 125V 15 amp plug? Oh, but it is a heavy duty plug........
    http://freenec.com/T28.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
  18. GuildX700

    GuildX700 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    What we are dealing with here are folks who have no idea of the seriousness of the consequences their decisions may end up with.

    "I'll just put this outlet in there".

    Sure, ok, but do you 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt understand the implications of your actions?

    An electrical fire can burn a home down. Period, end of discussion.

    My son was on the local volunteer fire department for several years. Fireplaces and electrical were the biggest causes of the fires he had to respond to.

    But go ahead here folks, continue to talk big. I guess they know better all in the quest of some pseudo sonic BS .

    It should always be safety first, and if there is even a shadow of a doubt, you DON'T do it.
     
  19. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SE PA
    Confusion? Really? You need to stop giving this kind of advice on the forum as it's clear you have no idea. Hate to be mean but what your saying goes totally against the NEC. Sounds like a great way for a fire. Your going to get someone possibly killed giving advice like that.

    Under NEC (National Electrical Code) there is to be NO 14 gauge wire on a 20 amp circuit. Prohibited! Someone is going to plug a 20amp draw device on that outlet in the future thinking it is rated for that. 20 amp outlets need to have 12 gauge lines to the 20 amp breaker. By swapping the outlet now you can have the run being powered by the thinner cable which will really start to have the cable heat up. Cable heats up and you just greatly increased the change to starting a nice little fire in your home.

    This is very bad and uninformed advice.

    PLEASE anyone on this forum and thinking about any kind of electrical work , discuss this thoroughly with your licensed electrician. But don't just take my advice, mentioned this fact about using 20amp outlets on a 15 amp line and see what they say.
     
  20. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SE PA
    Bingo. If the fire inspector finds that and traces the cause back to it, the next question would be who did this? Now it's traced back to the homeowner. Good luck with that one.
     
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