Demoing Harbeth Super HL5 Plus against my Harbeth M30.1s

No. Wouldn't work for me. Sliding doors to deck would be blocked.

 

Going to be ordering some acoustic panels, and just bought another rug, which definitely helps.

 

Are those the M30.1's in that photo? They look like the perfect size for that room

 

I see you have a window behind your couch. I have a window behind half my couch. Couple things I have realized. One is that the area behind the couch is game for treatment, and the distance of the couch from the back wall makes a difference. I moved my couch out about 8 inches and was able to avoid a null. Used simple wood braces to keep the couch legs from shifting. I also use soffit traps behind the couch.

 

Planning on putting one of the acoustic panels below the window (horizontally).
My sofa is about eight to 10 inches from the rear wall...

 

Yup. M30.1.
The 5 Plus went back to Don yesterday.

 

Priorities man, priorities.

 

LOL... priorities got me to this point

 

I've got a 6 1/2' mounted replica icthyosaur fossil on the wall behind the sofa, and have pondered its acoustic absorbing/scattering properties... I don't think it's the answer...

 

OC703 or equivalent semi-rigid fiberglass is the answer!

 

I haven't/didn't directly compare 30.1s before buying my pair of HL5 Plus. However, I thought I might share some of my experiences so far with them as they pertain to the latter part of this discussion.
I liked the HL5s out of the box but didn't love them or think they sounded "right." I was exploring cables and room treatments. Then they started to break in and that was better. But when a dealer let me try LFD amps with them it was almost like I had a whole different pair of speakers. I just can't say enough good things about this combination.

 

Which amp did you have initially, before trying the LFD?

 

I was using a Conrad Johnson ET 3 SE preamp with Outlaw 2200 monoblocks -- not an ideal setup. So this may also explain the huge jump in sound quality.

 

I also listened to a Jadis amp with my setup before demoing the LFD. While the Jadis sounded gorgeous on uncomplicated recordings like female vocals, acoustic instrumentals, etc., it also could not keep up very well with orchestral pieces. The LFD NCSE MKII sounded as good on everything and much better when it came to more demanding music, in terms of pacing, separation, etc.

 

I own a pair of Super HL5 speakers (not the Plus version) and i echo raferx's thoughts in so much the SHL5s creep up on you to the point that after a few weeks any doubts you may have had (and i did have doubts!) disappear and you just marvel at the sheer musicality of the speakers to the point you can't live without them! And it's why you hardly ever see any used Harbeth speakers on the secondhand market. I think the key lies in the Radial driver (and i'm not a basshead) along with the Harbeth history of making simply great speakers. And to explain, there's a beautiful midrange warmth to the Radial driver that seduces you, draws you into the music and just makes you smile and want to play more music! And yes, the hyper detail isn't there, they don't image like crazy, they're not heavy etc But to be honest, you don't really care. In fact i think these speakers changed the way i now like to listen to music... less detail, more warmth, more involvement, more smiles Just wonderful speakers, for life

 

?? He went with the 30's ....

 

Actually he stayed with the 30.1's briefly before offing them and going for DeVore Fidelity 0/96's, I believe.

 

Great speakers but readily available used.

http://www.hifishark.com/search?q=Harbeth&region=&region=NA&country_iso=&site_id=

 

You didn't do much research before you posted that did you? Many of those ads are for new pairs, check Audiogon. Others are for recently upgraded models (Monitor 30, 40 and SHL5) and yet more are for very old models. That doesn't even speak to the ads that are for something other than speakers.

 

Actually, I've spent the last year researching, the 7es3/P3esr come up for sale by private sellers regularly. Almost pulled the trigger on several 7's but I waffled and lost the chance. The reasonably priced ads dissappear pretty quickly.

http://www.hifishark.com/search?q=Harbeth 7es3&region=NA&country_iso=&site_id=&sold=on

 

Once again there are a lot of new ones in there. When you consider how many are sold, how few turn up used and how quickly they move, it would appear as though one has to be quite diligent to come up with a pair. I bought mine new and they won't be going anywhere unless I upgrade in the Harbeth line. I wonder how many are sold for that reason?

 

You can't go by what you happen to see on the second hand market - you see a lot of KEF LS-50s but if KEF sold 10,000 of them and you see 10 on the used market but you only see only one of brand ABC you can't say ABC is more of a keeper if ABC only sold 100 speakers - indeed as a percentage of numbers on the used market ABC is actually worse.

 

Harbeths come up for sale on Uk forums quite regularly but due to the hype there are likely more Harbeth owners on forums than KEF for instance. Some people find something better or just need short term cash so they aren't always keepers. They aren't going to suite everybody. Harbeth's success in proportion to their small size has a lot to do with forums and how bad competing designs are rather than the likely hood they are far better than anything else. (Together with Audio Note and Tannoy if forum hype is to be believed). In the real world they are not well known and too expensive for the greater proportion of hi-fi buyers. Some people just won't entertain anything with BBC heritage as their ancestors are very overrated. They survived on the far east market almost exclusively for years with hardly any UK retailers stocking them.

 

I think Harbeth is pretty darn big worldwide - and forums are after all home to audiophiles which is a niche market.

Quality can't really be measured in number of units sold. B&W is the biggest selling hi-fi speaker brand and outsold the next five speaker makers COMBINED. Talking high end brands not the likes of Bose which dwarfs the high end market.

The more expensive something is the less dealers will stock the products - especially if the company doesn't cater to home theater. There are just fewer music audio focused dealers than home theater focused ones. Dealers carry stuff they can sell. Home theater lets them sell more product - rears, center, subs, sides and a TV or projector on top. Two channel audio? ick in terms of the profit book. And stuff that looks like Harbeth, Audio Note, is a much tougher sell on that front as well. People living in tiny British homes are not as likely to want the big fat models. Still these guys have been selling speakers for 35+ years and if you count Snell (The American brand which the AN's are based on) also ~35 years. And given their higher price points from both companies - it's not exactly someone's first loudspeaker - they likely had something that was heavily touted as being "accurate" some sort of pro studio monitor and they leave those speakers for the likes of a Harbeth, AN, DeVore etc.

But it's important to note that as you note not everyone will like what these speakers bring to the table. Big horns do some things on cymbals that are difficult to match and other speakers are more about soundstaging or other technical feats that these chubby speakers may not reproduce as well. And nothing quite sounds like an electrostat.

If I didn't have Audio Note I'd probably lean to Harbeth or DeVore simply because the most important thing to me - they all share - balance. They sound right and they have the emotional content down on vocal reproduction. After that it becomes for me a bit more quibbling over bass, sensitivity, room positioning requirements, price, reliability of the company (will they be around and will you be able to get drivers in ten years).

Forum hype though can be combated a bit buy seeking out reviews and again all three have very solid reviews over many years on several continents. The KEF LS-50 is a mighty fine speaker in a technical sense but I don't think it will be a keeper for most people like a Harbeth et al. The KEF and pro speakers to me seem to be more about listening to the recording while the AN/Devore (only the Orangutan), Harbeth are more about forgetting the stereo and listening to the music - what gets lost in most of these discussions (guilty as well) is it's supposed to be about serving the music - the box names shouldn't matter.

 

Harbeth are a very small company when compared with KEF and B&W. They aren't darn big in any way but have a high profile with audiophiles in the far east and USA. Will admit what I have heard is preferable to offerings from those named above.