Should i give up vinyl?

By all means, give it up. If you find the process frustrating, then it is frustrating. Maybe, just maybe, LPs aren't perfectible. Maybe, just maybe, you can't get there from here. Maybe you're just chasing a chimera.

 

I use my CD/DA to break in new tubes in my amp or pre-amp. I have been a vinyl only guy for 10-15 years since my last TT. I purchased a VPI 16.5 (1991) before getting into tubes or separates. After 20+ years of record cleaning, I finally am satisfied with the LP format. Vinyl is a lot of work, but the benefits can not be denied. My sister-in-law sayes that CDs sound lifeless/flat on my system compared to my vinyl playback.

sean

 

Same here. But I have taken a bigger step and actually moved the TT out of the listening room all together. It is now housed in the studio and used exclusively for vinyl transfer and restoration projects. I decided a while back that I enjoy my digital library much more than any vinyl I would sit thru. And this coming from a dedicated vinyl guy that savored the days when vinyl was all we had

So now - the only vinyl I buy is second hand and it must have never been available on CD - ever. If I happen see a copy of something I want - I snag it and transfer it. And I make it a point of ensuring my transfers end up sounding as good (or better) than they would if I actually futzed about with the record itself.

Some folks were mentioning getting rid of stress, distractions and so on. I have found now that I am much older - the actual screwing around with a record simply getting it ready to play (cleaning, destat and the usual list of crap) makes for more stress and distraction than the actual playing of the LP itself. So - I take a different road now and make the LP a restoration project and create the ultimate "clean" no hassle version of the source material - so I listen to it instantly with no distraction whatsoever.

This also has the added bonus of never having to constantly upgrade the TT or cartridge as this gear is using sparingly at specific times rather than annoying me some Sunday when one minute I am in the mood for tunes and the next - annoyed because of this vinyl anomaly or that.

Now I simply get rid of any anomalies by digitalizing the source to ensure playback is 100% identical every time (and anywhere - mobile etc) I fire up the album.

VP

 

I agree, i seem to find more consistency

Yeah Analogue Seduction suggested a Dynavector and that was one i had in mind. The speakers i am with for a couple of years mpre and then they will be upgraded.

 

To the OP, my speakers are very revealing (as in the case of studio monitors) and some of my vinyl does indeed sound poor. This is the price I am prepared to pay because with the right recording it sounds great. After a while, and with the help of this forum, I got to know which recordings to go for to make the most of it.

 

I don't get how prepping vinyl to play is a hassle. Getting up early to go to work...that's a hassle.

 

If the OP reports that his system sounds stunning on some days, then I have to believe that further upgrades won't necessarily address his issues. As others have already hit upon, I think the issues at play are:

1. Some music is recorded (or mixed, or mastered, or pressed) better than other music. So quality will vary. Upgrading to a better cartridge may only result in a cartridge that better highlights the faults of the record! Perhaps one approach is to make note of which records have sounded stunning in the past. When you're having doubts about your system, play those records again. If they still sound stunning, then you know the problems you're having probably lie with bad recordings or pressings. But if these previously-stunning records are now disappointing as well, then there may be an issue with a component (such as the cartridge/stylus wearing out) or it may be...

2. Your mood affects your enjoyment. If you're not in the right mood to listen to music...or don't play music that best meshes with your mood...it can be a frustrating experience. This is doubly so if you're feeling stressed. Instead of being swallowed in by the music, you can become easily distracted...and are more prone to obsess over the faults of the sound than the enjoyment of the music.

3. I find that weather affects my vinyl playback. Changes in humidity, temperature, etc. seem to have minor impacts to my playback quality. And during days with electrical storms in the area, I find that my cartridges can become more noisy, as if they are picking up electrical impulses from the air.

 

I think you largely perhaps have outlined the main issues. No, my favourite, good sounding pressings dont change or deteriorate....i think having returned to vinyl with a much more revealing system, perhaps its been more of an eye opener than i thought.

Prior to this, my only experience of vinyl was spinning them as a kid on a midi system....the Crossley of our time. I dont think i anticipated how different records could sound. I feel i am getting there on some levels, but its still pretty damn frustrating as the quality control and mastering can be so wildly different. I feel as you go up the ladder that this is maybe more obvious perhaps. When i started a year ago, i had no real experience with it. I obviously dont count my experiences a kid collecting vinyl, as none of these issues were relevant. Everything sounded bad on that thing....

My reference pressings are probably the Radiohead - In Rainbows boxset and the recent Van Morrison reissues (which do sound amazing) plus i have a number of Mofi's and Rhino reissues that sound great too. When i play these, it seems like i have no complaints and then when i play a bad pressing, i start doubting my system...

 

I know my satisfaction with my vinyl rig depends on the vinyl pressing I'm playing. Good pressings sound good, and bad pressings sound bad. Just something I have to accept, but at least I know it isn't a fault with my setup.

If you play a piece of vinyl that is generally accepted as good-sounding and it doesn't sound right, then you may need to tweak your rig. Does not sound like this is your situation though.

 

I "got" into vinyl around the Dec of last year and have gotten bit pretty hard. It sounds like you've got a lot of money tied up into the turntable and still not reaching that level of perfection you're after?

Why not look at it from another perspective? If you're not emotionally invested into your TT why not sell it and use $300-400 of it to get a decent vintage setup or modern setup with a budget cartridge <$100 like the Shure m97. Make sure it's properly adjusted obviously.

With a cheaper table see if you feel better about the money you are putting into records.

For me there are great days and bad. I have two relatively budget but not crap TT's and decent enough speakers that are nothing to write home about. At the end of the day I realized I am addicted to the vinyl hunt and its ins and outs which is completely different than the lust for better gear. I've generally stopped caring about the hardware aspect (OK but not completely) which has been something of a problem for the past 10 or so years since beginnings with headphones. Now I'm stuck trying to find better pressings or better condition records of what I've already got.

 

After a few years of serious vinyl collecting and listening under my belt, I've recently dusted off digital again, and find myself enjoying both formats equally.

When well recorded music is mastered well and pressed onto an LP well, that's as good as it gets. But the problem here is that when you listen to one of these "golden albums", you're reminded that you don't own enough music that sounds this good, and you find yourself in the old audiophile dilemma of listening to the music that sounds the best vs. the music you truly feel is the best (known to audiologists as "Aja Syndrome")

I'm settling into a nice place recently where while I love to listen to vinyl, I'm able to remind myself I first and foremost love to listen to music. If a record has "vinyl problems" to a high enough degree I'm thinking about the problems instead of the music, I put it back on the shelf and put on the CD. I revisit it to determine if my mood played into the problems or if that record just sucks. It's usually the former FWIW.

 

I agree! Those who think they are going to get perfection from a vinyl record are fooling themselves. Just think! the physical way that a diamond stylus is placed in a trench (the groove) scraping along the two sides decoding pressed in audio data is a pretty violent way to playback recorded music. However, having said that, the same process decodes that other ambient information that gives vinyl its warm qualities and tube like reverb that is pleasant to the ear.

Sibilance and distortion go hand in hand with this media. The only thing you can do is to try an buy recordings that have less of it. Otherwise, stick to the digital oversampling and force yourself to enjoy those records. You can't have it both ways, unfortunately.

 

Very well said.

I finally came to the realization that the original "Flying Home " by Lionel Hampton will always sound old and 78ish, no matter who masters it. Not my stereo's fault.

 

I was thinking a record cleaner helps my vinyl sound a lot. I am also very happy with my Soundsmith cartridges. I have a good digital system that sometimes I'm more in the mood for.

 

I am not saying it's a hassle always. But sometimes - clearly dependent on mood or what else is going on - I find I can't be bothered.

VP

 

If we didn't feel there was some kind of substantial reward for, any effort, I agree wholeheartedly! Why bother?
Besides, I would have to change my name to just "Rob", and that's just too much hassle, so I say, stick with with the vinyls.

Here is my point to the OP. The way I see (hear) it is, stick with vinyl. Pay the price and have a dealer set up your deck with a competent cartridge and hopefully all this frustration, vacillation, and speculation will come to a close and you can just sit down and enjoy your music (not to knock the Denon DL 110 yet, I would find it a bit underwhelming and incapable to leave one consistently enthusiastic). Put first...

Without a point of reference there is no way to know if your TT is performing correctly (set-up), or understand if you cartridge is the limiting factor to your ears. There are too many variables here to know. I suspect that the modest cartridge and perhaps the set-up is an issue.

Blaming it on the pressings is misguided, although pressing and transfer/reference material make a difference, I don't believe from my 50+ years of playing vinyl that one could convince me, this is the problem. For I would rather have pressing issues and HiFi sound most of the time than to step down to a digital source (purely my humble opinion).

You have a very competent deck and phono-preamp, I would argue it is not the TT nor the phono-preamp. I would suggest that you try playing your table through a friend's system or a dealer's system, and comparing it to their TT, if it is the cartridge/set-up you will know by process of elimination.

 

i havent had time to turn on my stereo in two weeks. Enjoy every minute you have listening to music and don't fixate on the the minor flaws. Just remember that fifty dollar boom box you loved to death in the 80s.

 

Relatively young here (40), but in the last year I haven't bought a CD... and I have bought 200 LPs. Yes, it's a medium that makes me curse very often: bad pressings (or, even more irritating: good pressings with a couple of flaws such as warps or pops), tedious cleaning, etc. But I am enjoying vinyl much more than CDs (and I have more than 500 CDs, and more than 100 SACDs).

 

A long time ago, records (Lps, 45s 78s) were FUN, all fun, all the time, everybody rocked their asses off on whatever they dug; Grind-O-Matics, stackers, consoles, portables, rim drives, belt drives, ceramic pick-ups, magnetic pick ups, direct drives, all-in-ones, you name it.............sit, party, jam, party, listen to Music, enjoy, happy, excited; new record coming out, listen, got a new record player; easier on my records, that sounds good, listen, party, live..................then the internet came along................

 

A lot of quitters around these parts. They should change the name to: Steve Hoffman Oh this Vinyl stuff is just too hard and complicated for me Forums.

 

http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DL-110-Cartridge

U$ 300 A modest cart in the USA ?

 

I'm afraid so... Put it is all a POV thing as you will find raving, bigger than life reviews or not on anything. Again, not knocking the Denon (or any $300ish cart), set-up could well be the whole issue here or even a damaged stylus, it needs to be looked at, as I said. That said, I'm not a fan of the Denon, sorry. The fact that our OP has such erratic performance and much of the time it just does not engage and reward him concerns me. Vinyl, and that level of deck, should be exciting with most pressings, not just with Limited Edition HiFi fussy pressings!

I truly wish we lived closer together and I could take a look and listen to it, and help this guy out. I understand how deflated and confused he must feel.

 

Thanks, really appreciate that. I guess im still quite a newbie really. My experience has got progressively better amd sometimes i do sit down and it does engage me truly and sounds just how i wanted. Other times, it does let me down and fees a bit of an anti-climax. The recent Mofi Brothers in Arms absolutely blew me away but its a brand new record and theres a lot less second guessing as to whether it will be any good or not. I read Fremer's review prior to buying that and a handful of others and was rewarded with pretty great sound on the whole from those buys. I think, however, i still have a number of pressings that i bought in the first few weeks of vinyl buying and perhaps they are not the best.

Some are more puzzling. I have an EX Japanese first edition of Steely Dan's Aja, which is meant to be a pretty good audiophile album and im far from blown away. It sounds probably 7/10 and this is apparently a well regarded pressing?

Some things i have bought though, have suprised me in a positive way (Interpol - El Pintor for example) but it seems to be so hit and miss. Sometimes i do miss just being able to pick up a cd as i knew it what to expect and didnt have the disappointment. I didnt, however, hit anywhere near the level of what my best pressings sound like on the Orbe. In a way, it may be the contrast between the good and the bad. The good sounds amazing and then the bad sounds painfully mediocre but then maybe thats just vinyl...

 

What cart would you suggest would be a step up. I am looking at a MM/HOMC due to my phone stage. Later in the year, i am thinking i may try something in the region of the Ortofon 2M black or bronze even. Also been looking at Dynavector and the Audio Technica carts...what would you go for in that price range?

 

Go digital and never look back. Vinyl can be very rewarding but it's very fussy. Properly recorded and mastered CDs played on really good equipment can sound awfully good. I really think digital is still getting better. I've purchased several discs in the past year that just blow me away.