Should i give up vinyl?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by richbdd01, Mar 28, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Mr.Sneis

    Mr.Sneis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Maybe it's the phase I am in but last night I tried going back to CD and just couldn't stand it. Maybe I needed to spin audiophile grade material but right now I'll take vinyl warts and all.
     
    richbdd01 likes this.
  2. Trashman

    Trashman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I enjoy the best of both worlds...vinyl is a must for my home system and for dedicated listening sessions, but I probably use digital more on a daily basis, especially while commuting and being away from home. I wouldn't want to give up either option.
     
  3. ishmaelk

    ishmaelk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madrid
    To me, this is really interesting. My setup is way more humble (Systemdek IIX + Harman Kardon A402, with Shure M95ED) and though some of the vinyl I buy sounds very disappointing, most of the time I enjoy it a lot.
    But, of course, if consistency is an issue, then... Wait, there's no consistency either with digital :rolleyes: if you're used to listening to rock or pop, genres where bad mastering is very usual.
    When I listen to classical, I admit I've almost abandoned analog. Classical music labels got the digital mastering right much earlier and they make really good sounding CD and SACD.
     
    richbdd01 likes this.
  4. mcre01

    mcre01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    Reading this discussion has been very interesting. Yes, vinyl can be fussy and time consuming and aligning a cartridge can be an utter pain (particularly with having cerebral palsy) but at the moment it feels so worth it. I'm playing record after record and loving it! The pro-ject tube box DS I bought a week ago feels like the missing piece and now my 2m black is really singing! Yes, some records don't sound great but that's modern mastering for you. This forum has helped me understand a few things far better. To me the key is losing yourself in the music.
     
  5. VinylRob

    VinylRob Forum Resident

    This may be as much a matter of pressings as your cartridge, from what you say, it's hard to tell. Again, no intent to bash anything. I don't think it is out of the helm of possibility that your cart just might not be set-up correctly. Did I miss it, or did you not explain, who set up your deck? And are you reasonably sure it is set up correctly?

    1.Then on the basis of that answer I might suggest that if it is set up correctly, that is what you can expect out of the Denon.
    2. If not, find a trusted dealer or friend and get it set up right. Than decide if the Denon gets it.
    3. At this point either you have gained some, maybe enough improvement, or decided to abandon the Denon. If this were the case, I am quite found of Ortofon 2M Bronze or Black, if you went with the Bronze, the Black stylus is the only difference between the two and you would have a bit of an upgrade path over time. Both are excellent IMHO but there are good Audio-Technica (AT), Dynavector, Nagaoka, etc.

    (Phono cartridges are like loudspeakers, they are transducers and the choice is a very personal "style" if you will, to satisfy your ears and expectations of what sounds musically right to you. Unfortunately that is the hard part, how do you know what you will like unless you have tried everything? Answer; you can't for sure.)

    What tonearm is on you Michell Or be Se? Is it a Techno Arm, heavily modified Rega RB250?

    A thread to read perhaps: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/cartridge-for-j-a-michell-gyro-s-e.160953/
    As one of our friendly Gorts always says, "use search command, it is your friend!"

    More, later.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  6. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    London
    When i go to my parents, my dad has a Roksan Kandy CD setup and Monitor audio speakers which i used to think sounded alright. When i go there now, i think it sounds...well, lifeless like you said. It sounds like a completely different league to be honest
    I am using a Rega RB700, which is said to be closely matched in terms of performance to the Technoarm.

    I set up the deck myself but it is reasonably well set up. The bounce isnt perfect but its pretty even. Maybe the cart could do with adjustment, but then i would question how it would sound good with a big portion of my collection? Plus i have no IGD and i wouldve thought i would get at least a little if it wasnt set up well? Im not sure the setup could really be bettered by much...it would be very very minor adjustments if anything at all.
     
  7. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Haha, yep, and then you discovered all these problems you never knew you had.

    Or somebody thought you did. It's one or the other!
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  8. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is"

    Location:
    united kingdom
    I guess the situation was that once upon a time "pop" music was something that you listened to whilst doing something else..dressing up for that "first" date....meeting the lad's for a night out in a bar....you know,a background to life.....
     
    russk likes this.
  9. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Really good rock CDs have been with us for years. Decades now. I'm not doubting bad mastering exists or some releases are pushed beyond eleven, but sometimes the problem is way overstated.
     
    Halloween_Jack and Tim 2 like this.
  10. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    Yup, and the majority are good. I have lots of crappy sounding LP's too.
     
  11. Linto

    Linto Mayor of Simpleton

    The 110 is a great cartridge but is definitely on the lively side of neutral,
    the 160 is much smoother, can you try a different cartridge?
    The hierarchy of the turntable is spot on, it should still sound very very good.
    Maybe the LP format can be a little overrated at times?

    My best tip is to just avoid new pressings wherever possible.

    Occasionally I think about going only digital since arrival of my M-DAC
    but I recently did an A/B comparison with a 24/96 Flac needledrop I did of MFSL REM Document
    and playing back the LP and it wasn't even close, the LP is still king here. The digital file
    lacked so much emotion in the music, and the bass sounded like a synth in comparison.
     
  12. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is"

    Location:
    united kingdom
    Just a little lunacy from an oldie.....when I spin a vinyl record,I find it easy to imagine the guys in the recording studio,and they "talk" to me via the grooves.I never get that feeling from a compact disk...
    (It's time for your tablets Sir).............
     
    Shiver, russk and richbdd01 like this.
  13. JustGotPaid

    JustGotPaid Forum Resident

    The cartridge is WAY more significant than a deck/arm imho. I had a chance to listen to an older pieoner dd tt with a dyna 17d3. Some people might think that is stupid but imho no deck on earth with a DL-110 can touch that combo. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you get what you pay for with cartridges. The difference is really that big. And I even own a DL-110, and it's parked.
     
  14. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    London
    Just been listening to Talking Heads - Remain in Light (cut by Kevin Gray) since i got in tonight and sounds absolutely brilliant. When i listen to things like this, i wonder why i am writing this thread. But then thats what its been like....highs and lows!

    I always intended to upgrade the cart at some point fairly soon but will have to wait 3 or 4 months for that i think....will have to use the Denon till then.
     
  15. autodidact

    autodidact Forum Resident

    My advice: play the records that sound wonderful, and for the rest, play the CD. I personally just got fed up with vinyl inconsistencies, but after a long dry spell I plan to get my cart re-aligned and go at it again, gingerly. I keep my expectations modest. I suppose it was a problem that my former system was so analytical (Stax headphones), I could hear a slight smudge building up on the stylus after about 10 minutes, losing the crystalline clarity I got initially -- even on records that had been meticulously cleaned with Keith Monks, not to mention LAST record preservative, which I consider an essential for reducing HF fog from IM distortion.

    After a period of not playing much music, I started listening to plain old MP3s and CD rips on my built-in computer sound card with rather pedestrian headphones, and just not being so critical about things. Now I can enjoy an exceptionally well-recorded and mastered CD (like Chesky or ECM) or I can listen to vinyl or needle drops and enjoy the increased fidelity. But perfection, or great mastering, etc, or "lossless" fidelity, is not essential to enjoying music.

    Enjoyment comes from listening around the flaws and deficiencies, and digging what is there, not what is missing, or what is mistracking. It's all in the mind. I think George Harrison said that. (Again and again, in Yellow Submarine. :))

    So... I'd say don't give up vinyl. Enjoy what you've got on MP3, CD, vinyl, SACD, hi-res downloads, or whatever -- and adjust expectations accordingly. Upgrade when you have spare income, and hopefully that steps things up another notch.
     
    Daniel Thomas likes this.
  16. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Autodidact, that Dosent sound right. You clean em first before playing don't you?
     
  17. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    What knife are you carving them with ??!:yikes:
     
  18. mds

    mds Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    Your system is very good, you spent a lot of time and money on this hobby, therefore when you sit down to listen it should be bliss? Hmm, audiophiles are never satisfied for too long, there is always the desire or perception that one more tweak or upgrade is going to do it. The harder you try the more frustrating it gets. Let go, relax, maybe stop listening for a while and go then back with no expectations, it will sound good again.
     
    autodidact likes this.
  19. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    I strongly disagree. I have no LP's in my 15,000 + hrs music collection, but I'm quite disgusted with the routine squashing of dynamic range and strange choices for EQ in the overwhelming majority of pop/rock releases (over the last ~15 yrs). What's at least if not more irritating is the fact that this is now true of jazz and folk/acoustic music as well, an area where I can think of no reasonable justification for it.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  20. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member


    We probably just listen to different stuff. Metallica's Death Magnetic? Rubbish supposedly. Julie Feeney and her Pages album? Delightful. Nick Lowe? Same.
     
  21. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    I don't really know who Nick Lowe and Julie Feeney are, and if I've ever heard Metallica I wasn't aware of it.
     
  22. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    Oops, I take that back; I do have a couple of albums with Nick Lowe on them, one from 1970 one from 1971, released together on one CD in 1995. Brinsley Schwarz & Despite It All, a nice sounding CD.
     
  23. TLMusic

    TLMusic Musician & record collector

    My experience was that all that ended a few years after the Compact Disc was introduced.
     
  24. autodidact

    autodidact Forum Resident

    I knew people would be skeptical about my saying that. But I heard what I heard. My hearing has deteriorated somewhat with age, so it probably wouldn't bother me now. I know the vinyl boosters seem to be able to ignore just about any defect. I suppose that was one of the lesser ones, as it is a subtle effect. The cause? I don't know. As I said, the records were properly cleaned. Maybe they should be cleaned twice or three times? Perhaps.

    Some people can't even seem to hear the benefits of LAST. What can I say??? :shrug:
     
  25. Dentdog

    Dentdog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta
    The special times when the vinyl is magic is all it takes for me to keep on. I bought a good conditioner which has resolved some of the inconsistencies but its still hit and miss. You can upgrade all you want but some nights, for whatever reason, it's just not there. Perhaps you just have times when you can't emotionally connect. It's hard to come by a quiet mind on many days.
     
    mds and richbdd01 like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine