Mono Cartridge - conical or elliptical?

I own a couple of mono lp's, all first pressings from the late 50's and early 60's.

Now I want to buy the right cartridge for them, either the Grado MC+ (c=conical, ca. $150) or the Grado ME+ (e=eliptical, ca. $200).

What would be the right choice?

 

I asked this question to Peter Ledermann, the owner/builder of Soundsmith cartridges. I wanted a mono cartridge for my B&O turntable. He said they could build one special order based on a SMMC-2 line contact or SMMC-3 elliptical stylus. I just looked up the email from him. Specifically, he said, "NO conical (......yecchhhh....................).

 

I wonder how many mono records Peter Ledermann owns.

 

And I also wonder how many pre 1967 London Phase 4 LP discs he owns or how many RCA Dynagroove early discs too. Those require conical styli for best playback and many if not all mono playback is an ideal conical stylus job. It's not rocket science. A Shure M 44-7, M 44-G or M25c/M35x family does a superb job with mono as a rule and is all you need. Not expensive either.

 

Probably more than you think. He's been selling hi-fi gear forever (remember Bozak?).

He's also built more cartridges than you or me.

You know the argument that always gets me with this debate? You can push the pointy end of an American football further back into the corner of a room than a basketball. It doesn't make any difference if the groove is mono or stereo. You still want to trace it all.

 

True, forgot about his time at Bozak, one of my favorite speaker manufacturers. He's made great cartridges and still does, and does do awesome retips. But my point is. Any record which is predistorted with a tracing simulator (which is what was done with Dynagrooves early on, and known to be done with Telefunken Royal Sound) needs to be played back on conical styli as that was what they were cut with in mind. Dumbed down for average phonographs. Also, many early LP discs do well to have much above 16 kilohertz, so you don't need a Shibata or fancy tip for them as all they do is emphasize cutter rumble and surface noise on imperfect pressings. My concern when playing records like this is getting the music without magnifying the shortcomings of it. The music that's there.

 

I meant no disrespect to Mr. Ledermann. In fact, I've spoken with him on the phone and he's a real good dude.

That's assuming that a mono groove is formed as a V-shape... which it isn't.

 

Most mono records is stereo V-shaped, but only lateral needle movements.

 

Is that so? Are we talking about pre-1968 pressings only or are we including new mono cuts like the Beatles box?

 

Common mono records as a whole. They are V-shaped. Or do You mean that early original mono Beatles are not?

 

Action Pact is correct. U shaped grooves on old monos.

 

Are original mono Beatles not V-shaped?

 

Why would they be different? I joined the Beatles cult with the 2014 mono reissues. If the originals were special in some way I wouldn't know.

 

Yeah, but unlike official, regulation sized footballs and basketballs, conical stylus tips are not bound by any size requisite and can be made to different SIZES; that's the most important thing to keep in mind
In short: it's as much about the tip size as it is the profile
Conical styli sound just fine 95% of the time and are better for your records as well be they STEREO or MONO
Sure, there are tips that sound "better" but at what cost, and really, how much in the final analysis?
Set up and proper alignment on typical arms (specifically, typical mid-level arm bearings), record and tip wear as well as the costs of diminishing returns
There are and always have been some awfully fine sounding cartridges that used, and still do, round tips

 

I´m asking because You said monos were U-shaped. Now You say You don´t know.

 

Yes, early mono records are U shaped. If there are some Beatles records that are exceptions to the rule I don't know. Is that clearer?

 

To my (fifty year) experience best for mono is round (u-shaped) needle. Picks up a lot more than any elliptic or mc, brings the right ambience and is a lot more forgiving. I truly recommend Shure M44-7 which also gives higher volume than most others.

 

Not much clearer. What groove shape a mono record has must be looked into for that record. Do Your mono records of Beatles have U-shaped grooves?

 

Am I the only poster who does not own any mono records ?

 

Records cut on a mono lathe have a U-shaped groove.
Records cut on a stereo lathe* have a V-shaped groove.

*includes 2014 mono Beatles LPs

 

Heck, I even have a mono pressing from Argentina in my collection!

 

Yuck !

 

What Action Pact said.

 

I wouldn't buy a mono cartridge for only a couple of mono records unless someone was offering you a great deal.

 

What does mean for all Beatles mono, is any cut on a mono lathe?