Air drying records

Ok. Let's try this again. I regularly purchase vinyl records from several dealers who machine clean the records THAT THEY SEND TO ME before they GO TO THE POST OFFICE TO SHIP THEM TO ME. In other words I RECEIVE AT MY DOORSTEP RECORDS THAT HAVE BEEN CLEANED ON RCMS.

Are you following me so far?

Once I open the package I play the record that was cleaned on a RCM. I listen carefully to how it sounds. Then, I clean the record by hand afterwards. In many cases the record sounds better after I clean it.

If RCMs did the job right the first time I wouldn't hear an improvement after hand cleaning, would I?

Let me know if you need diagrams.

 

I receive albums at my doorstep that have been cleaned by RCMs. Sometimes I clean them again on my own RCM because the sellers did not do a good job in the first place. It has nothing to do with the RCM, it has more to do with the user of the RCM. The fluid, time and effort used to clean the record can differ. Many sellers tout "cleaned on my RCM", but that means little other than it got wet and vacuumed dry. My local guy used to run his records through an RCM, but did a poor job of it. I watched. I cringed. I am glad he stopped. No more pulling out records to find out they they were sleeved while still wet. I use a enzymatic cleaner and vacuum. Then I repeat using a rinse. If the LPs are really dusty, I first use a damp DiscWasher to get as much junk as possible off before I use the brush or the vacuum. I watched some hipster hand cleaning a record at one place with a rag. He looked like he was buffing the hood of his Mini. I had the urge to smack him in the head. What was worse is that he decided not to buy the damn thing and stuck the record that he just destroyed back in the browsers.

 

No water spots if you let them air dry after the Spin Clean?

 

Even though I don't use a Spin Clean, I share your same general concern Vinyl Addict. I use lab grade water that I believe is relatively free of anything that will leave deposits on my cleaned records. However, my concern is that airborne dust that exists in most dwellings (especially mine ) and can migrate to the record and stick to the moist surfaces during air drying. Cloth drying speeds the drying process but has it's own problems. Vacuum drying may be the best alternative. I built my own ultrasonic cleaner, now I may need to build some sort of enclosed low vacuum filtered air drying devise. Geesh!!!

 

Wally and Muzyck: I also prefer not to have the seller 'clean' the record for the same reason Muzyck articulated- even if they claim 'cleaned on VPI (or whatever)'
I have no idea of their method, whether their cleaning method left residual fluid on the record (a probability in my estimation, if they didn't do a second, rinse step with a 'pure' water). The result of a bad cleaning is worse than no cleaning at all- it can actually glue the contaminants into the groove once dry (which is why, I think, some people complain that after they cleaned a record, it is noisier).
Everybody's method, tools, and overall philosphy differs; I'm not suggesting that there is a single 'best' method - in fact, i have experimented with many methods, machines, fluids, etc. The best results I have obtained are from multiple cleanings using different methods.

 

Agree totally with your post here. The pure water rinse step is essential in my estimation. Everybody's methods/philosophy differs---absolutely correct. There may not be an absolute "best way" so just do what works "best for you".

 

Exactly!
You must be a mind reader!

 

Maybe the problem lies with your dealer(s) doing the job "right", or not (or at all) as others have pointed out; possibility?

OR, maybe they're using one of these "dry clean" systems; maybe?:

 

Ronco FTW!

 

I've followed the Spin Clean directions and gotten some great results. I use microfiber cloths and give both sides of the LP a pretty firm circular drying motion right after removing it from the bath, and I think that may get the "contaminated water" off the record better than letting it air dry. Just my opinion on how it works. I only use a clean towel a couple of times before grabbing a fresh one, then let the record air dry for a few minutes just in case.

Last night I heard the most dramatic improvement yet. A dirty record that looked okay, but had tons of dust in the grooves. Ugly surface noise all the way through, literally muddy sound. After playing there was a good bit of dust visible on the record and all around the needle that had been dug out of the grooves. So I knew it was dirty. I did the Spin Clean and towel dry 3 times in a row, and then... nearly perfect. Very quiet with the occasional tiny click between tracks. Probably 2 grades better. The results aren't always that dramatic, but when they are it sure puts me in a great mood.

 

It would be good if you could just stick them in the dishwasher or is that just a dream?

 

Cover those labels and don't use hot water!

 

That's why people like the ultrasonic machines, and the KL now even has a multi-record feeder (which I don't bother with), but it's pretty close to 'put 'em in', press the button, and done.'

 

I think there might be a problem with the semantics of hand cleaning vs. machine cleaning here.

For instance, if you follow the rules of most RCMs to the letter, you start with laying the record on the machine, and use a small brush to basically paint on some fluid, applying no real pressure, and then rely on the machine to do all the work.

"Hand cleaning" on the other hand is generally defined as laying the record on a towel and going to town with your preferred brushes, and then doing whatever you do to dry.

I'd describe my approach as a hybrid. With new, sealed records, which is most of what I'm buying these days, I lay it on a towel, spray my fluid, apply with some pressure with a MoFi brush, and vacuum. An actual used record I might use a paint pad on for some serious scrubbing. But I still consider the final step on the RCM to be where the action is. Not only is it completely dry and ready to go without fussing with towels and the associated debris and static, but its very very quick. I can bring new records home and be playing them in a couple of minutes. - that alone is worth the $179 the KAB EV-1 set me back.

Basically I say this because I think it's explaining why people are reporting benefits hand cleaning a record that was previously RCM cleaned.

 

I don't follow this remark; rest of the post made perfect sense

 

Having the cleanest possible records is a concern of mine. I've inquired about what type of machines these sellers use. It's obvious to me watching YT videos of various machines that squirting some liquid on a spinning LP, moving the liquid around with a brush then vacuuming it up can't cut it. Where's the elbow grease? It takes me approximately 45 minutes per LP to get it perfectly clean and that's not an extreme commitment of time to have a disc that is good for the remainder of my lifetime. Believe what you like about RCMs. I've done as much research as I possibly can without actually buying one and I'm convinced my method is best. It's certainly works for my needs.

 

Holy crap dude.

Sort of reminds me of when I was 16 and had done as much research on sex as I possible could without actually having it. Amazing the difference that final step makes sometimes.

If you had an RCM you'd have records that sounded every bit as good and you'd spend about 42 less minutes. You are right though, as I said in #64, what you're describing having seen in the youtube video doesn't cut it.

 

What, one can't listen to other clean records during the process?

 

Bwahahahahahahaha

 

Have fun with this one:
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/best-practices-record-cleaning.333442/

 

It's more the belief that there's any record so dirty that it takes 45 minutes to get it clean. I have to suspect you're being more pious then efficient in your methodology. I'd REALLY look into "actually owning" a RCM. You can return it if you hate it. I don't think you will.

 

Here is how it is done:

 

Thanks for your explanation. To clarify, I use the sterile water as a final rinse after the cleaner.. or cleaners. Depending on the record, I may use an enzyme cleaner and I have a variety of other cleaner solutions at the ready. Perhaps one already contains a surfactant like 'Photo-flo' but I would be hesitant to use anything less than pure water as a final rinse. Though I have yet to try a surfactant in the final rinse but I can't imagine adding a film to the record's surface being a good thing. I've tried the GruvGlide and LAST treatments but concluded that aside from attenuating some surface noise, they also muted the higher frequencies and took some of the 'air' away - actually doing more harm than good for my purposes.

 

It's not, and you wouldn't be
Photo-flo doesn't leave a "film" of anything, nor will anything I have suggested leave more than a molecule's worth of a layer, if vacuumed off the surface thoroughly before it drys

I would suggest that many here should read a decent overview on surfactants and how they work (the Wikipedia article is fair)
The most effective surfactant for eliminating the "static" charge that everyone is so concerned about is the propanal

As for the GruvGlide and LAST "products"? I wouldn't give a nickel for any of them (other than the old style LAST stylus brush they used to give you with the magic stylus cleaner)

They're in the same camp (in my mind) as the folks back in my day who used to treat their Lps with a few drops of squaline (using shark oil on records made a brief "come back" with some folks thanks to a handful of idiots in the Audio press); seems they all "have a friend who's a chemist" they like to quote
Best way to reduce record and stylus wear? Oil your records!
My other favorite during the late '90 early 2000s was the obsession over removing the vinyl's plasticisers and the "ethanol versus methanol" debates...........or whether vodka was better then Everclear" for record cleaning.............same sort of really useful stuff we're worrying over here today............guess some things will never die