Game of Thrones Discussion: Uncut! (Spoilers welcome)

So we've made it Season Five and the show continues to diverge from the books in significant ways. Considering that many fans view books four and five as being weaker offerings from Martin, these adjustments are often for the best. (I haven't yet made it to book five, but I have a pretty good idea of what happens there by this point.) Sometimes events are condensed for the sake of brevity or else characters are merged for clarity, but some of the changes have a potentially game changing impact, so I wanted to open up this discussion to more comparisons with the books. Naturally, spoilers and even fan theories are encouraged here, so if you don't want to have any secrets revealed, consider this fair warning. Or to lift a line from the Onion's A/V club, the night is dark and full of spoilers. . .

 

One the key differences so far this season pertains to Sansa's role in the grand scheme of things. In the books, she's been tucked away in the Vale with her true identity carefully disguised, but in the show, she's come out in the open as Sansa Stark (though the Lannisters have apparently not yet discovered this). I'll confess that Sansa was never really a big favorite of mine, but she's been growing on me lately as she's learned a few tricks from the master manipulator, Littlefinger. Now Lord Baelish has taken her back home to Winterfell after arranging a wedding with the sadistic Ramsay Bolton. (In the books, the Boltons came up with a fake Arya for the wedding.) At first, Littlefinger's underlying intentions behind this move were a bit unclear to me, but he claims to be positioning her to exact revenge for the atrocities at the Red Wedding. Does the once timid Sansa have what it takes to hold her own against the bloody Boltons? And what exactly is Littlefinger's angle here? It became clear last night that Lord Baelish expects the Boltons to fall beneath the military superiority of Stannis and he's ultimately betting against the longterm viability of the Lannisters.

 

As far as I recall the Boltons don't know the girl isn't really Arya. It was Littlefinger and the Lannisters who sent Sansa's friend there in Arya's place, which is why they've had Littlefinger send Sansa there on the show.

Has she? People keep saying this but to me it looks like she's still being helplessly dragged from one unhappy situation to another.

 

Last night's episode killed off a character that is not dead in GRRM -- Barristan Selmy.

It's also possible Grey Worm is dead but the actor hasn't been doing "exit interviews" in the media so I think he may survive.

 

I was impressed by the way that she handled herself at the end of last season in the wake of her aunt's untimely demise. It seemed like she had learned that lies go down better with a shot of the truth.

 

They're taking a big risk with this Sansa-at-Winterfell storyline, aside from what a big deviation it is from the novels. Rumour has it something very unpleasant is going to happen. Enough people were turned off watching Ramsay torture Theon... if he tortures Sansa it will push a lot of viewers over the edge.

 

Yeah, I was among those who was put off by some of that stuff with Ramsay and Theon--they dragged the sadistic torture out a little too long for my tastes--but I feel a little more prepared for it this time. And there's at least the hope that the Boltons will finally get their well deserved comeuppance.

 

This was always going to be the season where viewers who hadn't read the books were going to be confronted with the unpleasant reality that the major plots - at the wall, with Stannis's army, Dany's attempt to return, whatever the hell Bran is doing - came to a screeching halt while Tyrion and Cersei, Brienne and Jaime and Arya and Sansa and a slew of other lesser characters just milled around aimlessly waiting for Martin to issue their marching orders.

There's no excuse, really, - the books are long, but they're hardly Joyce or even Pynchon - they're fantasy potboilers and for God's sake just get on with it before everybody discovers Patrick Rothfuss and gets wrapped up in his story until they realize that he's stuck for an ending too and we all go back to reading the newspaper.

I know the TV producers have said that they're prepared to move ahead before Martin publishes the books, but it's really hard to believe that they would resolve the major plots before Martin does. I would expect a fairly lukewarm end to this season, with the final act at the wall as the cliffhanger, and then a tremendous amount of pressure on Martin to push out the next book before the next TV season. He has to move Stannis and Dany forward next, doesn't he?

 

Littlefinger did mention that Ramsay was smitten with her so I'm curious to see if that's genuine. I really don't want to see her suffering at his hands, as she's been through enough, though I would love if this season she finds her inner wolf and has a part in some of the Boltons being sent to meet the gods.

I couldn't believe that we finally got to see Barristan kick some *ss and then he bites the dust. I suppose it was fitting that he died a knight, but I was really wanting to see him paint the room red and be standing at the end of it looking like a badass.

 

I, too, can't wait to see what happens... if Ramsay's gonna actually be 'nice' to Sansa, or be...... well, himself.
so, I'm gonna come here to ask questions, like:
Who's that 'mean girl' who giving Arya the business? Do the books go into what it takes to be a 'face-less' man?

 

Jaime in Dorne? Alrighty then.

 

Set Barristan getting killed off was a big surprise and a major bummer IMO.
As of book five he is still alive and kicking.

 

Another deviation from the books.

 

Indeed. This season is going rogue in a big way.

 

Not as much as I'd like, but she is starting to get some training. She is first trained to be observant, being sent into to the city to work menial jobs and then return home to report three things she learned that day. Then she is trained to use her non-sight senses. She is given a potion that makes her temporarily blind. No asassin "ninja training" or anything like that, so far.

 

Something tells me that Arya's not going to wait to complete here assassin training before taking out Meryn Trant on his upcoming visit to Braavos.

One key element that was strongly hinted at in "Sons of the Harpy" has GOT fans very excited: Many have suggested that Jon Snow is not really the bastard son of Ned Stark but rather his nephew, the illicit offspring of Lyanna Stark and Prince Rhaegar Targaryen. First, Stannis suggests to his wife that Ned didn't seem like the type of guy to impregnate some random barmaid. Later, Littlefinger recounts to Sansa the story of Rhaegar publicly admiring Lyanna, though they were both betrothed to others. Over in Mareen, Sir Barristan recounts his history with Rhaegar to Dany, so the doomed prince's shadow loomed large last night. Assuming that this theory is correct, the implications are huge, establishing Jon Snow as the offspring of ice (Stark) and fire (Targaryen), potentially a leading candidate for the Iron Throne.

 

I believe in that theory. Though it's been mentioned just a few times about how everything happening between the seven kingdoms is petty drama while the real danger will come from the North. So I'm thinking that once it's all said and done and the White Walkers are defeated, Westeros will be a much different place and the Iron Throne may not be of much importance. At least not how it's currently viewed.

I was also thinking earlier today about the potential clash between Brienne and Stannis when he eventually assaults Winterfell. That should be an interesting storyline to follow. A perfect clash of interests that could have big repercussions depending on how it plays out.

 

I'm ok with this. Jaime's chapters in Feast for Crows are pretty dull -- he goes from place to place in the Riverlands, getting involved in disputes among the legion of tertiary characters Martin clutters the books with. Anything would be an improvement. Plus the Dorne storyline, which felt pretty disconnected in the book, will probably feel more important (and be more fun) with him and Bronn in it.

 

Unfortunately, the White Walkers are positioned to harm the forces of the north (plus Stannis) more so than the Lannisters at this point. I'm still wondering how Bran will figure into everything, though the show runners have indicated that he won't be appearing this season. Will he somehow be able to exert some kind of influence over the Walkers?

At least Brienne feels like she has some sense of purpose in the show. In the book, she was just wandering around vainly with Pod looking for Sansa. Sometimes Martin would send his characters around on these seemingly endless quests that never reach fruition, like the way Arya got shuttled around over Westeros for two books looking for someone who would pay her ransom. Of course, I'm sort of rooting for Stannis to succeed at this point, so I don't want Brienne to exact her revenge, but I wouldn't mind it if she took out the red witch.

 

My theory on Bran, if I can be so bold, is: he'll be able to enter the mind of Dragon. Thus, with his mind in such a powerful beast, Westerios shall survive.

 

Bran, Arya and Jon Snow all have warging ability to some extent. Three Starks, three dragons. Ice & fire.

 

So.... will there be a scene, where the three of them will be just 'hangin' out', in dragon bodies:
Jon: "Seven Gods! These scales itch!"
Bran: "You'll get used to it."
Jon: "....beats walking, though."
Arya: "You got that right! I spent most of my time in these books walking!"

 

I'm not all that happy with the recent deviations from the novels--especially the way Sanza is being placed in Jeyne Poole's fake Arya position, the wholesale rewrite of the Dorne plot, and the simplification of Tyrion's eastern journey. The apparent death of Ser Barristan and Grey Worm didn't help. But I'm happy to keep watching. I just wish martin would finish the damn thing already so I can find out what it's finally all about......

L.