Avengers 2: The Age of Ultron (April 2015)

So...... this new one is just as 'goofy' as the first one.
I assumed that why most of us wrote that is was 'just good.... not great'.

 

I gotta say, the most brilliant thing writer/director Joss Whedon did was, he came up with legitimate reasons why a guy who shoots arrows extremely well and a leather-clad lady who can kick bad guys' asses very well can hold their own with immortals, monsters, billion-dollar robots, aliens, and indestructible people. I've seen at least one commercial where Hawkeye even remarks about it.

It's interesting to reflect that in the grand history of superhero comic books, there are quite a few who are just regular guys in fancy suits (Batman, Daredevil, Hawkeye, etc.) who have no super powers at all, but still manage to do well. Eh, at some point you just gotta suspend your disbelief and go with it. I had no problem with the Daredevil TV show... hell, I actually liked that a lot more than the last couple of Dark Knight movies.

 

I had a positive reaction to the second Captain America film and Daredevil, so I was quite surprised to be so lukewarm on the new Avengers. Joss Whedon has been a favorite of mine for a long time, and I feel like his influence on the other Marvel movies can be felt more strongly than on the Avengers films.

Others have mentioned the moments that I thought worked best, they are the quieter ones between the characters.

Where I felt the differences of philosophy were palpable in the first Avengers, in the new one, there seem to be ideas in search of elaboration. Everything is shorthand because there's a lot more to see, so hurry it up. It barely makes any sense. Contrast that with Captain America: The Winter Soldier where the entire plot had consistent theme and tone with naturalistic rhythms - dynamic range.

What really struck me is how intensely visceral the chaotic violence is in the film. Look back at Superman battling the villains at the end of Superman II. There are people there in danger, but nothing like, say, the woman trapped in her car during Hulk's rampage. The way the scene is rendered is positively horrific. There was a lot of focus in this Avengers on trying to protect the civilians, but in some ways it was just a distraction because the related themes didn't really get fleshed out. More undercooked elements in the overstuffed casserole this turned out to be.

 

There is a monumental difference in scope between say, The Winter Soldier and Avengers. With Avengers you're talking about a movie with 6 lead characters, plus 3 new characters, a main villain and about a dozen secondary characters. Trying to fit in 20 speaking parts (and that's just the main cast) and 5 action setpieces in under 2 1/2 hours is a monumental undertaking. So yeah, shorthand becomes necessary in that scenario. It's also a movie that Marvel wants to be BIG, it needs to be the uber-spectacle that both closes the prior phase of the Marvel universe and opens the door to the next phase.

I think Whedon does as good a job as anyone could to keep the human element amidst the sheer scale of that behemoth.

I liked this line from Amy Nicholson's review:

"Whedon is a people-pleaser, the kind of old-school director who can confidently pivot between genres, even within the same film. I sometimes think Hollywood would be better off with more master craftsmen like him, and fewer tortured geniuses aping Christopher Nolan."

 

Not saying it's impossible to make a good movie under those constraints, but it strikes me that the things you listed have everything to do with quantity over quality. Where does storytelling come into play?

 

I know it's not impossible to make a good movie under those constraints because I happen to think he did make a good movie under those constraints. Sure, I would gladly trade some of the cut character footage for one of the action sequences, but that's not the movie Marvel wanted (and I'm sure some of the deleted content will end up on the blu-ray). I went with a couple friends and we all had a great time, I'm planning to go back and see it in 3D.

 

I remember in the 70s Marvel had the rights to Godzilla and put out a short lived series,in the final issues The Avengers came in to contain him . That would be an awesome movie(well ,part of a movie at least).

 

I was underwhelmed. Too many characters. Too much spectacle over substance.

 

Haven't seen the movie but an interesting take, although one could argue that while Capt America, Iron Man and Hulk weren't born gods, they become gods either by supernatural stimuli or by man playing god. CA can die, but he's essentially got super strength and endurance. Iron Man can die, but inside the suit, he's pretty much a god. Hulk, well, when he's on he's indestructible and does battle with gods as their equal. In this mythology, maybe we could say that Black Widow and Hawkeye have acquired their powers either through extensive training or via some sort of man-made enhancement (I haven't seen the movie yet so don't know what's been revealed). Yes, you've got to sit back and enjoy it but thinking about the mythology involved here is fun, too.

 

The 9-year-old is right in this case. In the first Avengers movie, Black Widow used her spying talents to get info from Loki and Hawkeye played tactician and sniper. Neither were featured playing to their strengths in Avengers 2. In fact, both were kind of goofy elements in the story. The Hawkeye setpiece (you know what I mean) didn't quite work for me, though I get what it was supposed to do. There were enough slow, talky bits already. Black Widow's big revelation was anti-climactic. All she had to tell Banner was that she was trained to kill (and maybe at some level wanted to kill) if she needed to relate to him and help defuse his insecurities.

I can see what Avengers 2 intended to do all over the place. My problem is that what resulted is an incredibly clunky version of what was supposed to be. I don't know if there were logistical problems with deadlines or scheduling or whatever, but I think this one needed a little more time in the oven. I can see where it's aiming, but it's always missing the mark.

 

Maybe they should have started with this Avengers as a two-parter, like they plan to do with Infinity War. More time to balance the action, character beats, and plot developments.

 

So apparently it was supposed to be a 3.5 hr movie but it got cut down to 2.5 hrs. I can't wait for the blu ray! I want the full movie! Joss Whedon style

 

I did not like how there was a big speech about one of the team members possibly not surviving, and it turns out that the one that didn't was a new character that we barely knew. There really was no need for that to happen at all.

 

One of the design flaws in an inter-connected movie universe where upcoming films have been announced 5 years in advance is there is no way you can put any of the major characters in any kind of real peril because we've already seen all the movies they have been scheduled in afterward. That's not a fault of the film, that's a fault of the design of the MCU in general. With the new characters they had already announced Scarlet Witch is going to be part of the next Captain America movie before Avengers even hit the theater, I saw the press release and said "there's another one that's safe".

 

That's a problem with these films in general: the stakes don't feel real, because you know that Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, and Captain America are all safe from death. How can the threat from Ultron or Loki or Thanos feel real if you know none of those characters are in any real danger? I'm hoping they have the guts to actually kill off one of the core characters in the third or fourth film when Thanos finally shows up.

 

But even if the next movies weren't scheduled, you'd still know they weren't going to kill Captain America or Iron Man. Nor would they kill James Bond or Indiana Jones. You can pretty much guarantee the hero won't get killed in any action-adventure movie.

The question is rarely "will they get out of this alive," it's, "how will they get out of this?"

 

Exactly. If people expect otherwise it's unrealistic.

 

Hawkeye may not be a god or even be god-like but he does have one ability that none of them have. His known ability is his incredible eyesight and reflexes. Hence he has incredible aim with the bow and arrow at a quick pace (he can shoot arrows in rapid succession and never miss his mark.)

Now as for Black Widow, she doesn't have any superhero powers. She's just a trained expert assassin and spy and a master of martial arts and many weapons.

Of course both Hawkeye and Black Widow can die like any other human (So can Stark when not in his suit, Banner when he isn't the Hulk, and even probably Steve Rogers when caught off guard. Thor is the only immortal one.)

Besides, who said there had to be rule that all the Avengers/Superheroes had to be god-like? What is Nick Fury's "power"? No real power with him either. He's just an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. who is a super spy that takes a drug to keep him "young" and active.

If you think about it, there aren't many Superheroes, Avengers or not, that are true Gods , like Thor. Even Superman isn't a god and can die (Kryptonite.) And many Superheroes really aren't even god-like; they either just have at least one special ability (natural, man-made, and/or via extensive training) or they have "neat toys" that give them an advantage over normal people and can fight on par with super villains with powers, a la Ironman, Batman, etc.

 

Does the current Jackson version of Nick Fury take a drug to stay young and active? I thought that was only done post-1990 to explain how the comic version could have fought in WWII.

Also, is Thor really a god or are the Asgardian's merely a group of beings that primitive Earthers called "gods" because they couldn't understand the idea of aliens?

 

Good questions.

 

From the Agents of SHIELD pilot:

Maria Hill: Everything's changing. A little while ago, most people went to bed thinking that the craziest thing in the world was a billionaire in a flying metal suit. Then aliens invade New York then were beaten back by among others, a giant green monster, a costumed hero from the 40's, and a God.
Grant Ward: I don't think Thor's technically a God.
Maria Hill: Well, you haven't been near his arms.

 

Maybe it was the makeup, but I noticed that Samuel L. Jackson is starting to look 66. Even Chris Evans is 33 now and looks much older than when he played the Human Torch character - that super soldier serum isn't going to keep Captain America looking young forever. How long are they going to draw the current cast out before that reboot the entire franchise with younger actors?

 

After Avengers: Infinity War Part 2 in 2019 would be my guess.

 

That kid is right. With a god on your side, what more do you need?

 

Both Hawkeye and the Black Widow's super powers involve the ability to spontaneously regenerate new ammunition.

Even Daryl on the Walking Dead has to reuse arrows.