Best or smooth sounding 6DJ8, 6922, 7308 tubes? Amperex? Telefunken?

I'm sure that you will like the sound of the Bugle Boys much better than the stock Phillips 6922's.

I have a Musical Fidelity X-Cans Tube Headphone Amp which I prefer to run Amperex Tubes in, but the 7308 PQ is just too expensive for this application so I am using the Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8 with dimpled getter which only cost $15/ ea and I find that they have a fuller, richer and more lush sound then the BB's and their performance is only slightly less satisfying than the up to 10X more expensive Amperex 7308 PQ.

~Maxx~

 

Back from the grave with this thread? I'm standing by the Amperex 7308 made in the good ol' U.S.A. - they last a long time in my buffer stage, and nothing else I've tried comes close to the balanced sound I get with the Amperex. I've had 6DJ8s made by Amperex Holland (D, large halo, and spaceship getters), Mullard, Ei, GE, Sylvania, and Siemens Munich, 6922s from Siemens Munich, Amperex U.S.A., Lorenz, Russian (Sovtek?), Sylvania (and the later Philips from the Sylvania plants in the U.S.), and 7308s from Sylvania and Amperex (the winner). I've also tried 7DJ8s from national (Japan) and Ei (too bright for my system). I haven't had the good fortune to get a pair of 6922s from Telefunken, the CCa variant, or the Amperex pinched waist models that command prices from around $225 to big $$$. Anybody looking to try some out should PM me as I always have a bunch of 6DJ8s in stock, and some 6922s as well.

Someone mentioned all 7308s have gold pins - that should be amended to some 7308s come with gold pins. Sylvania and Raytheon both made 7308s with standard, non-plated pins. Amperex most definitely should have the gold plated pins as one of the identifiers to assure it's legit, and not some rebranded piece of excrement...

 

One that you might prefer?

Telefunken 6DJ8

For me Amperex 6dj8

 

I rolled thru three W german NOS tubes the past 3 months for my phono stage. Telefunken e88cc, siemens e88cc, and finally the telefunken e188cc. I found the last one to match my current system the best. Great 3D soundstaging that nearly brings a live concert to my living room. I still haven't tried any Amperex 6922's or 7308's, I hope to do that someday too.

 

My favorites are Amperex and Telefunken

 

Hi, my name is Cat, and I'm an Audible Illusions junkie and a tubeoholic. I've been one for over 15 years. I should get a chip for that, right? It's been tough, complicated by the difficulty of finding easy going 6DJ8/6922 family tubes rugged enough to cope with the stress of a long term relationship without premature failure or mood swings. But with Audible Illusions preamps you take one day at a time and soldier on, looking for guidance and seeking simpler solutions. I love AI and Art Ferris's contribution to our hobby/addiction, but stubbornly continued my quest to find a great sounding tube with NOS inclinations that can handle the pressure AI units place on them.

The standard fall back for most AI preamps is the rugged Soviet military 6922 (strong like bear) of which there are several favors of vanilla with varying degrees of grace. The best have hints of European NOS gentility, but none have the richness and warmth that tube rollers crave from NOS European tubes easily accepted by most other preamps. Most Russian tubes, to my ears, sound sterile (analytical) in my current rig. Of course, the gear upstream and down always influences the sound signature to a greater or lesser degree, but since longevity is the greatest virtue of Soviet/Russian Federation tubes, refinement is relegated to a barstool in the Sidekick's Lounge.

Which brings me to my recent discovery of a rugged 6922 family tube (the 6N11 Chinese) that is apparently designed to replicate the sound signature of NOS Telefunken tubes! The 6N11 is often used in Chinese gear, especially in head-fi amps where the circuits are designed around 6922 signal tubes (Note: Some confusion has arisen regarding this tube possibly being a 6NIP, which is not recommended for AI preamps, but the 6N11 appears to be a ruggedized 6922 drop-in equivalent.) OK, maybe we should call this what it is, a knock-off of the Telefunken NOS tube design, but unlike most NOS varieties these seem to be very strong tubes (ruggedized, military variety) that can take the full on 24/7 heater voltage AI units employ.

Now, I've only been using these for a short while (two weeks to be exact), but so far they've handled the high heater voltage AI design without any significant session to session changes in sound signature or the addition of microphonics, which I'd interpret as early tube failure. The sound signature of these tubes is on the deliciously warm side, extended, but not analytical. Deep, tight bass, slightly forward mid-range (vocals are harmonically rich & unsmeared) and extended highs that are detailed, silky smooth and thick like a good drugstore malt. Also, these tubes are relatively cheap at the moment (less than $20 for a pair from some eBay vendors).

Is the Chinese 6N11 recommended by Art Ferris for AI preamps? Who knows, ...Art may not have checked these out since there are a ready and consistent supply of new production Russian 6922 with the Electro Harmonix imprint. But if you're looking for a tube rolling option for AI, this may be it. The only suggestion I'll add is that I'd highly recommend Herbie's Tube Dampers. They worked well taming my Russian 6922 tubes which suffered from glare in the treble range while tightening the bass. And I've been using them since day 1 of installing the 6N11 tubes.

As I've stated, the Russian tubes have a more analytical flavor in my system, very detailed and extended, but never spine-tingling in the true musical experience sense (of course, systems and sound preferences differ). For those who prefer a more white coat & Latex glove sound signature, I'd recommend sticking with matched pairs or quads of 6922EH tubes provided by the manufacturer and retubing services. For more adventurous AI owners, there may now be a more musically viable option.

System: My preamp is the Audible Illusions L3; upstream, I have a tube modified and rectified ModWright OPPO BDP-92 with Shuguang 50 Year Treasure PV181-z (rectifier tube is Holland Phillips NOS substitute for 6BM8 variety, the tube type numbers elude me at the moment); downstream, I have a Sanders MagTech amp driving my Magneplanar 3.7i speaker system With a Hsu Research ULD-15 sub.


Cat

 

Sorry about the length of the post above. Two minor corrections in respect to my system... The tube in my ModWright OPPO is the CV181z and the rectifier tube is the Phillips 5R4GYS replacing a 5AR4, not a 6BM8. D'oh!

Hope someone finds this information useful.

Cat

 

I've tried the Amperex USA 7308, 6922 and Siemens CCa.
For my application the Telefunken E88CC sounds better.

So tube choice may be component dependent and saying one
tube is the "best" for all applications may be misleading.

 

Agreed, and much appreciated, samurai. I think we're on the same page.

There's no one-size-fits-all solution. The 6N11 sounds richly harmonic and noise-free ...in my system. Given the rapid failure rate of so many well regarded ($$$) NOS tubes in AI preamps these $10 a pop Telefunken knock-offs are utterly amazing. But with other gear, who knows? And time will tell how long these hold up. My fingers are crossed.

Thanks for communicating these two key points in a more concise manner. I was trying to convey this while being funny and informative, but brevity usually trumps lame attempts at humor.


Cat

 

It is probably gonna be system dependant so you may have to try a few different brands to get the best results.

In my system the Amperex JAN 7308 Gold Pins could not be bested by anything, I tried them all!!!

 

I have a quad of Amperex pinched waist 6dj8's that sound very nice.

 

RAM tubes haven't been mentioned yet. I'm a big fan & prefer them to telefunken/amperex/sylvannia I've used in Audio Research and CJ. And who tests tubes anywhere near the degree RAM does?

 

Currently trying a pair in my AI M3A. Sounding great so far. Previously used the EH6922s, which I agree can be a little aggressive sounding but definitely rugged. I've tried Amperex JAN 7308s in this pre and loved the sound but at $90 a piece didn't want to risk losing them to the heavy AI load. These 6N11s are very very nice indeed. More liquid sounding than the EH's. I think your description is pretty much right on at this point but it's early days. I'll have to swap in the 7308s and see how they compare. Thanks for the tip.

Jeff

 

At a little over three weeks out my first 6N11 pair started losing some of that glorious mid-range that I found so appealing. The way I'd describe it is that the mids receded a bit, with a less of that silky smooth fluid-likepresentation. The treble had a little more of an edge and the bass less defined (boomy). These tubes were still quite listenable, but not shiver-up-the-spine exceptional.

During my evaluation, the Chinese 6922 substitutes never became noisy or microphonic. Whatever happened in this instance may be temporary or relegated to this one specific set of tubes, but others using this tube should be aware that there may be problems down the line. I'm still rolling the 6N11 into my AIL3 without reservations, but in respect to expectations of consistency and longevity for this particular tube type perhaps a grain of salt is in order.


Cat

 

Thanks for the followup, Cat. Even though that's kinda disappointing to hear. Thought you may have found a genuine bargain tube for the AI pres. I'll be interested to see if mine do the same thing. In the meantime, sounding damn nice in my system so far. I'll post back as these get more time on them.

 

A new contender for the 6DJ8/6922/7308 spot in your gear - the 7963 subminiature developed by Sylvania:
http://frank.pocnet.net/other/Sylvania/Sylvania-SSFGT.pdf

It looks like a tube developed for military use (I'm assuming missile guidance since it was designed to withstand tremendous amounts of vibration/shock). It's not commonly available - since it has those pigtail leads, it probably got ignored by audio/guitar tube buyers and the bulk of them most likely ended up in army surplus stores.

I ran across this at a site that's devoted to Musical Fidelity X series gear/upgrades. The tube, unfortunately isn't a 9 pin plug n play swap - it has 8 pigtail leads that have to be soldered to a 9 pin socket saver, and the pinouts don't match so heat shrink insulation covers the leads, and the leads have to be snaked around to the proper pins. Here's a link to the thread: http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/9798/sylvania-7963-best-e88cc-planet



The #9 pin on a 6922 leads to nothing inside the glass - the other 8 match the 7963, just in different spots. A shot of what the little devil looks like from Rock Grotto:


I finally found a few and spent more than a few minutes figuring out a way to line everything up. I had to angle the pair I wired up to fit inside the X-10D buffer case; the leads have to be long enough to allow for the Twister game routing, so it stands taller than a standard 6922. So far, it sounds very good (not like the 6922s and 6DJ8s from Sylvania or Philips made at Sylvania plant tubes) - doesn't thin out or tubby up the bass, midrange presence is good without adding honk or glare, highs I'm still trying to decide how they compare to what I normally use. I normally have Amperex 7308s in the buffer, and those have done the best job at getting tube liveliness without adding or subtracting elements like most other 6DJ8 family tubes I've tried. With no signal/cranked up to full, the 7963s are very quiet, no tube rush, just a tiny hint of noise. The best Amperex 7308s I have fill the spread between speakers better than anything I've tried (I can sit 160 degrees off axis from my right speaker and easily hear right channel action). The 7963 started out being pretty narrow in the stereo spread sweepstakes, but after having been on constantly overnight they're starting to fill in the middle nicely.

 

Here is a pic of the Sylvania 7963 with the flying leads uncut. I've known about this tube but never pursed a purchase as Sylvania sound, in general never appealed to me.




5 on ebay right now

 

I'm not a fan of the sound from the Sylvania 6DJ8 family; this one sounds much better to me than any of the 9 pin 6DJ8 types Sylvania made I've listened to (I've had pairs of Sylvania 6DJ8/6922/7308s and thought they were ok, not something that added benefits to the sound in my system). The 7963s so far seem to be pretty balanced sounding; I'm going to leave them on and see what burning them in will do to the sonics. You might want to wire up a pair and try them out - I haven't felt the urge to swap them out for the Amperex 7308s I normally use. I'm waiting on a pair of Telefunken 6922s to come in from overseas - those might cause me to reevaluate what works best in my set-up, but for the next few weeks the 7963s will be in use.

 

I have a sleeve of (5) and socket adapters.

I'll probably get around to this after the Summer and report back.

 

After more listening, I think the Sylvania 7963 has a more prononuced midrange/highs than my favorite in the family (Amperex 7308). The bass is excellent, and might even be the best I've experienced within the 6DJ8 family. They're also very quiet (granted, I've only made up one set of tehse so far). If someone likes a highly detailed mid/high sound or has slightly rolled off speakers in the upper frequencies, the 7963 might be the tube to try.

Just got a pair of Telefunken 6922s today. I got nervous when I first tried one in my tester - it barely got into the lower Good range; turns out they just take longer to warm up than other 6922s I own. Section balance was very close - much like Amperex 6922 and 7308 tubes (as well they should be - they're supposed to be higher tolerance/have more closely matched sections than the 6DJ8). So far they remind me of the Amperex 7308, although the highs are a bit less pronounced - the pins on the tubes looked like they'd hardly ever been tried out in a tester/used (no pin marks or heat discoloration) and put back into their boxes. I'll check back after they've been run constantly for a spell.

 

Off [$$$]:

It'll be funny seeing prices NOS valves were in 2005 & what those same, if available, valves are getting today!

 

I can appreciate "lame attempts" at humor.
Sometimes they hit the mark so don't stop.

 

I bought some military grade Telefunken’s for the multiplex in my Scott tuner. I can’t say if they sound better or worse than others. Is Telefunken the only tube maker who made military grade tubes? What is the advantage to buying military grade?