The Black Crowes have apparently broken up

But ostensibly, the band hires the producer and the producer works for the band.

In THIS case, Def American (or American, as it was known at that point, hereafter referred to as DA) was sold to Sony in 1997. DA was notoriously "hands off" in allowing artists to follow their muse, and so The Crowes recorded as a 5 piece in late 1997, cutting what they thought were demos for the first Sony album.

Sony listened and said, 'Far out! We think an outside producer will really flesh this stuff out.'

So TBC hired Don Was, fresh off Stones Bridges to Babylon. Was listened to the demos and said, "we should just mix and master THIS - your new album is pretty much in the can."

And execs at Sony FLIPPED, stepped in, told Chris & Rich that they can work with an A&R guy or be released from Sony. So they fired Was and brought in John Kalodner, who brought in Caveman Shirley...and the resultant fallout really killed the Crowes' career. They turned their back on the audience they had cultivated from 92-97 without bringing back the fringe "Hard to Handle/She Talks to Angels" people that the BYS album was supposed to appeal to. Any chance at becoming established on the 'jamband' circuit was dashed with the release of BYS, a neutered version of TBC wrapped up in glam sparkles, cocaine and high gloss mascara.

So...it doesn't matter who's 'fault' it is at this point. All that matters is that the records after John Kalodner stepped in always had something wrong with them, and the Brothers never could really 100% get it together gain

 

Amen!

 

So because I'm not at home to look and Wikipedia didn't make it known Shirley only did work years later when the albums were rereleased I should stop posting? I corrected myself after I went to his site. I'm not a humongo fan but I did at least think to myself it was weird Shirley being listed as working in the first two releases. Joe Perry did give the band a good word about Shirley though and with several sources credited with quotes the band gave Shirley a tryout and they hired him after liking him

 

Whatever you think, bro.

Whatever you want to believe lol

 

So rich robinsons cited quote means he's a liar?

 

with quoted sources:
Producer Kevin Shirley was brought in on the advice of Aerosmith guitarist Joe Perry.[5] As Rich explained, "We really wanted to work with someone who can come in and say, 'That's not good.' ... If Kevin says something I disagree with, he'll be the first one to say, 'Hey, it's your song,' but it's healthy for me and Chris to have him come in and be as excited about our songs as we are and say, 'Okay, that's cool, but what if we tried this?'"[21] At his first meeting with the band, Shirley described the songs played for him as having "the same old jammy, shuffle feel of the last two records. I stopped them then and I said to them ... 'You've got to feel like you're teenagers again. You need a song like that.'"[22] Shirley's prompting led the band to write "Kickin' My Heart Around" on the spot, before he had signed on to produce.[22] Rich agreed that Shirley shifted the focus to making "a rock record" that was "focused and concise".[23]


The band hired Shirley and agreed to his recording conditions, which meant recording in New York City at Avatar Studios, taking weekends off and recording from 1:00–8:00 pm.[11][12] Chris said of the rigid schedule, "We loved it.... We had lives other than just being in the studio 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Got a different vantage point on the whole thing."[12] Shirley's laid-back style also won praise from the band. "Kevin is the first guy that I've worked with that just went with it—especially my singing. A lot of this album is just my scratch vocals. It's very loose, and Kevin let it go.... He'd say, if we didn't get it in two or three takes, 'We'll come back tomorrow'", said Chris.[12] Of the album's lyrical bent, Chris said, "...there is a lot of love on it, and I've never written love songs. I do think having a muse in my life like the woman I'm with now helped.... I think there's also a lot of humor on this album, which is something we haven't touched on before, except maybe on Shake Your Money Maker, which was a lighter time and a lighter mood."[12] There was also a conscious effort to "simplify the language",[24] which was inspired by Chris's listening to music by Otis Redding, George Jones and Muddy Waters. "I realized how direct and honest those records were – and I wanted that here", said Chris.[5]

 

In an ideal world maybe, but the standard business practice seems to be that the producer works for the label, and obscures their true motives from the band.

At any rate, "telling the band how to play" is usually within the purview of a record producer.

 

There are some 'archive' shows available on LiveBlackCrowes - several 96-97 shows. Anyone know of an especially good one worth recommending ?

 

See if the Warpaint Live album changes your mind: LutherD brought a discipline to the band that loosened pent-up creativity left dormant in the years of discord...

 

At this point, every time I see this thread title pop back up toward the top of the page, the little voice in my head says, "And in other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead."

 

Anything from October 1996 and Feb 1997, for starters.

10-1 and 10-2-96 are personal faves.

 

You mean the Hey Grandma cover??

Yeah they played the hell out of that. Then broke up.

 

I don't necessarily agree that one album derailed anything. For me their peak was the tour with Page. I lost interest in the Black Crowes when they went on hiatus and returned to venture into musical waters that didn't suit them in the 2000's. There were some moments, but just not as many or as good.

 

The Black Crowes ended in 2007 for me.

It was a slow death...but dying is most always a process, is it not??

 

Well, I don't care what you think.

I know what happened.

 

The Page thing was already spent by the time the tour rolled around.

The REAL Page/Crowes shows were at the Roseland and the Greek in 1999.

The 2000 tour without Sven was a joke. And that's why Page used the excuse of a 'back injury' to cancel the 3rd leg - he didn't like Greg Rzab as a bassist.

And I guess the Crowes didn't either - still owe him $$ for that tour, I hear lol

But yeah, they needed the Page tour just to even try and stay somewhat relevant by that point.

 

Hey - Chris and Rich had to agree to it.

At the end of the day, it was their band and they made the decisions. And they let EVERYONE know that.

 

Thanks for posting that. I do remember the band being pretty excited about this new direction back then (1999). But I'm not sure they remained that way for too long.

 

That's a good story...for Wikipedia.

I know the truth.

And the truth is : John Kalodner.

Whether you want to believe Wikipedia or not is your business. But I'm telling you the truth.

 

IMO I still say the Page/Crowe shows ruined the Black Crowes career and I have seen both. What was the Best, "the Chris Robinson Brotherhood".........

 

i don't even take that post as the band being excited. to me it comes off more like the made the best of the hand they were getting dealt. they did write those songs though so i judge BYS based off of the music not label politics, what the band really wanted to do, etc. i think its a damn fine release

 

We were ALL excited, remember B??

And as we got into 1999 and tours with Lenny Krapitz, and they didn't expand the setlists and they kept Audley on a leash, playing-wise...

Again, it could have been so much more.

 

Yup.

The Page thing should have never happened.

They didn't do anything but hurt each other, in the end.

 

Excited in that they were talking up Shirley and the way he produced them. Maybe they were sincere, maybe they were making the best of the situation. I just know that Mr. Anti-authority Chris Robinson asked "How high?" when Sony/Shirley/Kalodner told him to jump.

 

It's terrible.

How do you go from 'How Much for Your Wings,' to "buy you a diamond raaaaang'??

Lol

There 3 really good songs there : Virtue & Vice, Horsehead, and Congregation. Other than that, it's all filler and B-sides.

The worst part?? They held up production to put Diamond Ring on - AND TOOK OFF GROWS A ROSE!!

HORRIBLE version of Only A Fool...

I mean, it's not even GOOD.