Upgrade from B&W 601 S3

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by eirismania, May 9, 2015.

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  1. eirismania

    eirismania Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    So, any opinions on the PM1? He's reducing them to 2000 euros (normally 2600) since they are the demo ones. Full warranty included. For 200 euros more he will include the stands, which are are normally like 500 euros. I yet have to try them out, but if I am impressed (and given the reviews I will be), I might be tempted to go for this option.
     
  2. Linto

    Linto Mayor of Simpleton

    If LPs are your main source I'd upgrade the Turntable first, (btw I haven't heard one B&W speaker I like, and I used to work for a B&W dealer so know them quite well.)

    For that budget you could get used Quad 63s one of the greatest speaker ever made.
    If you are want to buy newer I'd look at Spendor, that go well with Arcam.
     
  3. eirismania

    eirismania Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Thanks for the suggestions. Quad's are easy to get here in Germany so I will have a look this week as I am going to another dealer which actually carries them. Spendor's are another matter. They are not very popular around dealers here and I just checked and they are a bit pricey compared to what you can get in the UK, so not sure.
     
  4. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    I haven't heard one B&W speaker that I didn't like :)
     
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  5. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Sue Kraft (TAS) has started reviewing for The Audio Beat. Her first review is for some B&W speakers (CM10 Series 2) and she gives some useful background info on B&Ws she has owned. Good reading for fans of this marque.


    http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/bw_cm10_s2.htm
     
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  6. Linto

    Linto Mayor of Simpleton

    as I always say "If we all liked the same things the world would be a boring place"

    I did have a soft spot for the 800N - but it needed such ridiculous amplification, and the Nautilus is
    cute, but much smaller that I imagined.
    I did AB comparisons with 805 sig and my old Rogers LS5/9, I could get the 805s at a trade price
    I kept the Rogers and still use them.
     
  7. Linto

    Linto Mayor of Simpleton

    I was referring to buying used. There must be some good German speakers? How about Danish?
     
  8. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    I couldn't agree more with your statement about the world being a boring place if we all thought the same and liked the same thing. When I was in college I worked at a Hi-Fi shop in 73 and 74 and we had a pretty good selection of speakers ( JBL, Rectilinear, Klipsch, Altec Lansing, a few more that makes that I have long forgotten ) but I always had a soft spot for the Bose 901's that we sold.
     
  9. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    That's a very good speaker, so, yes, if you like it (and the price) go for it. You will need the stands! I used to use 805s in a mobile set-up, and they are excellent on their own, but 1-2 sub-woofers help for real bass extension. I would expect the situation to be the same with the PM1. You can obviously start without sub-woofer(s), and add as needed.

    With regard to American speakers, they come in all shapes, sizes, and design philosophies. Unfortunately, I imagine most of the ones which would be considered bargains here are unlikely to be so in Europe due to import duty, distributor margins, etc. Probably the only two US makes which have worldwide distribution like B&W, etc. are Klipsch and JBL, and neither are my favorite US speaker companies.

    With regard to Quads, tread carefully. While they can do some things very, very well (female voice, solo violin, etc.), they are also severely limited in others (frequency extension, power handling, etc.). I have been to classical recording sessions (Mahler, of all things) where they were being used as monitors (while the engineers all wore Senn. HD600s!! :)), and is not pretty on large orchestral crescendos, especially with the volume turned up. If you only listen to stuff quietly that fits within their operating envelope, they can be sublime!

    Another British name to consider is Tannoy, as they also have a worldwide presence.
     
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  10. eirismania

    eirismania Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Thanks for this. I really appreciate all of your comments. I am definitely having a look at the PM1's. They will have to really impress, though, as they are a bit over my budget, and also ex demo speakers.

    I will have a listen to the Tannoy's as well as I think the next dealer I am visiting carries them, as well as the Rega RS5.

    Cheers!
     
  11. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Depending on how compact, you could consider the following:-

    Tannoy Precision 6.1
    Tannoy DC6 or Revolution XT6
    Audio Physic Classic Compact
    Neat Motive 3
    Neat Iota (really compact!)
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2015
  12. eirismania

    eirismania Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    They don't really have to be compact. I can fit floorstander's like the KEF R500, or the B&W CM8. Nothing too big, but definitely no need to be small.
     
  13. eirismania

    eirismania Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    So, after another session of auditioning, I've narrowed it down to the following, in no particular order...

    Linn Majik 109
    Elac BS 244.2 (not biampable)
    KEF R300
    KEF R500
    B&W CM5 S2
    Spendor S3/5R2 (not biampable)

    I also had a listen to the Martin Logan Motion 20 and liked them a lot, but I've decided to keep to my original budget of 1600 euros, so they are unfortunately too expensive. Same with the Linn Majik 140 (really liked these ones), and the B&W PM1. Unfortunately I can't find a dealer that has Rega's to listen to, so I will have to take them out of the running. Same goes to the CM6 S2 as I had another listen and found them a bit too bright.

    So all of the speakers in the shortlist are bookshelf except the R500, which is at the absolute top end of my budget. I am now not sure if I should get something like the Spendor's or Linn's and eventually get a sub, or use the money for the sub to get a tower with more bass extension like the R500. My problem is that at least looking at the specs, the R500 goes only 4Hz deeper than the R300, but cost 600 euros more. Does it make more sense then to get the R300, and get a sub for 600 euros later on? Sounds to me like a better combo. Am I missing something?

    My other problem is that I don't know if my Arcam P75 (50 wpc) would be enough to drive the Elac's or the Spendor's, as they are not biampable. I don't like to listen very loud, so I am not worried about that, more about getting the most out of the equipment I have in terms of SQ.

    Would love to hear your opinions and any comments about these speakers and what would you do in my case.

    Cheers!
     
  14. eirismania

    eirismania Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Well, after some more reading and just looking at my audition notes, I think I've decided for the KEF R300. The Elac's will be too hard to drive with my amp and I wasn't as convinced about the Spendor's, the Linn's or the B&W as I am with the KEF's. I do like the R500 more, but I feel I don't need the extra bass right now and that I would rather spend the 600 euro difference later on a sub, and then I will have proper low bass. It might take a while till a buy them as I am going on holiday soon, so I would still like to hear some opinions, especially about the R300 vs R500 topic.

    Cheers and thanks again for your previous and future comments.
     
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  15. Dmitry

    Dmitry Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    There is nothing wrong with the sound of your speakers, except they seriously lack the low end.
    Instead of buying new speakers, I'd buy a nice subwoofer.
     
  16. eirismania

    eirismania Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    So what you are saying is that there is no benefit from buying speakers more expensive than what I already have? I understand the sub idea but I also want an improvement in other areas, not just bass.
     
  17. Dmitry

    Dmitry Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Have you tried listening to your speakers with a subwoofer? If not, you might try it. It'll transform the sound of your 601's.
     
  18. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue In Memoriam

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    That's why I said, get a nice used pair of 801 Matrix S3.
     
  19. wgriel

    wgriel Forum Resident

    Location:
    bc, canada
    While those are incredible speakers, they are a touch larger than what the OP is looking for!
     
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  20. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue In Memoriam

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Yeah, plus he doesn't really have the amp to drive them properly. I guess I got ahead of myself there. haha. :D
     
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  21. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    But they need pricey amplification to work at their best. Trust me on that! [Edit: I see you responded again MC Dave, while I was busy typing! :)]

    On the issue of sub. vs. tower: you will be trading one set of features/issues for another. 1-2 subs. allow you to place the woofer(s) in the optimum place(s) for best bass while placing the monitors in the best location for image, etc. However, you have to integrate the woofers with the main monitors, and how successful you will be at that depends on the capabilities of your amplifier, sub-woofer and yourself (and whether you have the tools to measure the in-room response). There is also a difference between adding a sub. (or two) in a bass-managed system and a non-bass-managed system. You will also need to budget for stands for the monitors.

    The tower flips things. The bass unit will be integrated into the design. No special considerations for filtering or cross-over point. No need for a stand. However, you lose the location flexibility.

    If you have made your mind up for KEFs, I would ask the dealer whether you can try both the R300 and R500 in your home. At 13' x 20', you have a nice sized room, and you want to be sure that you are going to get the step up in sound you are seeking. If you commit to buying R300 plus stands or R500, I cannot imagine that a dealer would not be prepared to bring both along one evening.
     
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  22. eirismania

    eirismania Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Thanks for your comments and ideas. I already have the stands, and yes, the dealer will give me the option to try them out. I think that I might go down that route. As I said earlier, my thought was if it made sense to get the R300 now and a sub later with the 600 euros left, or just go for the R500 and no sub, at least not in the short-mid term.

    No, haven't. I understand what you are saying and yes it will make me happy in the short term. But as I said, I also want to add other things to the sound, not just bass, and I feel a sub will not help me with that. I don't really listen to bassy music so the sub is not as important as say a very good tweeter/mid. But don't get me wrong, subwoofer will eventually be part of the equation.
     
  23. Dmitry

    Dmitry Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Bassy music has nothing to do with a properly set-up subwoofer, or vice versa.
    Good luck with your new speakers, though!
     
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  24. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    It depends on:

    1. how the speakers sound in your room;
    2. your budget (obviously);
    3. the quality of, and your ability to integrate a sub-woofer with a pair of monitors.

    If you can find a dealer to let you do the home demo, I would ask her/him to also bring a sub. along so you can get an idea of how the combination will work, and how much effort is needed to get proper integration. There is no right/wrong answer here, unless one option is beyond your budget, of course!
     
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  25. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue In Memoriam

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Haha no problem! I would like to see B&W re-release the 801 Matrix with a no-compromise crossover, drivers, and cabinet. I'd say they would sell as fast as they could make them. However, they won't be at 80s prices!
     
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