Help Me Choose a TT Set-Up

Hello all,

I am looking to get a turntable to match this set up:

Monitor Audio Silver 8 tower speakers
Rogue Audio Sphinx integrated amp (which includes what I am told is a very good phono stage that can handle cartridges with output of 2.5mV or higher)
I have the above two components already. I am also willing to buy the Musical Fidelity V90-LPS phono stage if I need to go for a low-output moving-coil cartridge

Turntables I am considering:
Clearaudio Concept with Verify tonearm
Funk Firm Little Super Deck with F5 tonearm
Well Tempered Simplex with co.'s tonearm (not sure what it's called)
VPI Traveler with 10" tonearm
VPI Scout with 9" JMW tonenarm
SOTA Comet with S303 tonearm

I have only auditioned the Concept and the Little Super Deck at the moment, but hope to hear the others in the next couple of days. However, it is impossible for me to audition all of them side by side with the same speakers, amp, cartridge etc.
I did hear the Concept and LSD side by side but with different cartridges on each.
I loved the Concept's build quality -- it looks so good for its price. I heard it with the stock Clearaudio MM cartridge and while the music output was good, it wasn't great. Just seemed a bit too forward, bright and harsh to my ears (but only a bit)
The Little Super Deck is costlier, and I heard that with the Ortofon Quintet Bronze. The sound quality was noticeably better -- warmer, slightly laid back and overall smoother.
I am not sure if the difference was because of the cartridge more than the turntable itself. I reckon the Concept might sound just as good or even better with the same Ortofon Quintet Bronze. I don't know.
But in any case, the Little Super Deck's fit and finish weren't a patch on the Concept. Not terrible by any means, but a bit crude compared to the posh and smooth curves and lines of the Concept. The LSD just doesn't look like it will last a lifetime if so one desires, or maybe I am being shallow.

Here are my cartridge choices (which is proving to be very tough)
Clearaudio Maestro Wood - about S$1100-1400
Dynavector 10x5 (high output MC) - about S$500-600
Benz Micro Ace - about S$1200-1400
Van Den Hul DDT II Special - about S$1500-S$1800 (this is a low-output MC so I will have to buy the Musical Fidelity phono stage mentioned above)
And finally (this one is going to raise some eyebrows because most may think it's overkill)...
Koetsu Rosewood Standard - about $1800-$2000 (again, I will have to get the phono stage for it). I am considering this only because I am getting a very good deal on it, and unlike in the U.S. where the price is substantially higher, there is no mark up in Asia for this brand

The problem for me is that I can't really listen to any of these cartridges because the opportunity for an audition doesn't exist where I stay. So I need your help in making a choice.

So please help.

Any suggestions/recommendations on the turntables mentioned above? Any ideas on which table might go best with which cartridge? For example, is pairing a competent table like the Concept with an entry-level Koetsu cartridge really a terrible idea?

I listen mostly to classic rock, alt-rock, blues and some pop. I seem to prefer a warmer sound with a liquid midrange rather than a bright and forward sound. I don't listen to music very loud and don't need thumping bass.

Keep in mind that my budget can't really beyond the costliest items listed above.

Any other recommendations?

Thank you.

 

The Concept MC seems to have a good online rep., so why not try it instead of the MM cartridge. That way, you are getting a "plug and play" solution that already appeals to you.

jeff

 

My vote would be the Well Tempered or Funk Firm. I've heard the former but not the latter. The Well Tempered can accommodate a wide variety of cartridges. Good luck with your journey. I should also mention I own the Traveler and although I've enjoyed it I would have gone with the Simplex had I heard it first.

 

If you can stretch your budget, go for the Concept Wood with Satisfy Tonearm and the Concept MC cartridge. I compared mine to the regular Concept MM and it's a huge upgrade. My Concept Wood started with an Ortofon 2M Bronze, which was quite good, but the Concept MC took it to new heights. And that's with the relatively inexpensive Clearaudio Nano V2 phono stage.

I saw that MusicDirect recently was selling this combination for $500 off, at just $2,500. Unbelievable bang for the buck IMO. As Jeff noted, it's "plug-and-play" so I wouldn't fear buying it online, though it is nice to have a local dealer to handle any potential issues. You'll just pay a bit more.

 

Not a big fan of either unipivot or golfball-in-oil tonearms, so this limits my enthusiasm for VPI and Well Tempered a little.

Also, I'd stick with modestly priced cartridges until I had some experience. You will wreck one sooner or later, and learning how to set things up is much more important than the differences in cartridges once you get over a fairly low level.

 

Have you considered the Ortofon 2m Black cartridge?

It would work well with the on board phono stage of the Sphinx, and is a great cartridge all around (and a good cart to start with).

 

I'm of the opinion that the unipivot arm is the best way to go. I'd go with the Scout 2 if possible or, if not, the Scout 1.1 which can be upgraded to a 2 later.

 

Thank you all for your responses.
Well, I auditioned multiple set-ups today, and I think I've found at least the turntable I want.
Here are the details of the audition:

Since there were a few votes for the Well Tempered Simplex was the best of the lot, let's start with that.
I had high expectations from this table, so maybe that had something to do with how disappointed I was with it. But I think it may well have been the best if the dealer knew anything at all about turntables and how to set them up.
It was set up with Spendor tower speakers and a separate Well Tempered power supply along with high-end phono amp and speaker amplifiers. And a Goldring cartridge.
But in spite of all this, I am pretty sure the turntable settings were definitely wrong because the music was sorta muffled (though the table was dead quiet) -- bass was smeary and there was no definition or detail.
There was only person at the dealership, who clearly didn't know what she was talking about. She told me the cartridge was a Dynavector. It wasn't. And get this, she didn't know how to cue to a specific track on a record. I had to tell her how to do this, even though I have never played a record previously in my life. It seemed like she was the person IN CHARGE of the shop, so it wasn't some minion trying to manage the store while the boss was away.
There is only a single dealer listed on Well Tempered's website for where I live, so I can't go elsewhere to check.
If the set up was right, then I have to say the table is not worth the money.
Additionally, while the table itself looked solid and the golf and squash balls add some quirk to it, I wasn't entirely confident about the really really think belt (which is knotted!) and the threads holding the (thin) tone arm up.
Also, the dealer said they would charge an additional $150 to set up the table. Considering the likely shoddy set up at the shop, you can imagine why I thought this was a joke.
So I struck the Well Tempered off the list.

Next, SOTA Comet.
I couldn't actually audition this particular table, because the dealer said it wasn't possible. But I saw it on display. Looks quite impressive. Really massive plinth, and the platter seems pretty solid too. It comes bundled with a Rega 303 arm, which looked sorta tiny on the big table.
The dealer did let me audition the SOTA Nova though, and he said the sound would be 'very similar' to the Comet.
He had a really elaborate set up with Dynaudio speakers and a HUGE mono block power amp and stuff. He was using a Kozma cartridge.
The sound was impressive. Full, weighty and detailed. But the arm wasn't a standard 303. I think it was an SME arm.
And I just couldn't consider a table that I can't audition. Besides I thought I could do better than the 303 for the money I was willing to spend.
So SOTA went out.

Roksan Radius 5.2 With Nima tonearm and Roksan MM cart
Amp was Roksan K3 and speakers were B&W bookshelves
Good music. Punchy is the word that comes to mind. Crystal clear. But I couldn't tolerate its looks. Very blingy, for lack of a better word. I am not taking that home to the wife.

Clearaudio Concept With Verify Tonearm
Speakers were a pair of Manger bookshelf units.
As I mentioned previously, I loved the Concept's build quality -- it looks so good for its price. I heard it with the stock Clearaudio MM cartridge and while the music output was good, it wasn't great. Just seemed a bit too forward, bright and harsh to my ears (but only a bit). The dealer wouldn't let me audition it with another cartridge unless I promised to buy a table that he stocks. I couldn't do that.

Funk Firm Little Super Deck With F5 tonearm
The Little Super Deck is costlier than the Concept, and I heard it with the Ortofon Quintet Bronze. The sound quality was noticeably better -- warmer, slightly laid back and overall smoother.
I am not sure if the difference was because of the cartridge. Maybe the Concept might sound just as good or even better with the same Ortofon Quintet Bronze. I don't know.
But in any case, the Little Super Deck's fit and finish left a lot to be desired. The LSD just doesn't look like it will last a lifetime if one so desires, especially compared to the two following tables... which brings me to...

VPI Scout and Traveler
The dealer did a phenomenal job of setting these two up for my audition. The two tables were set side by side, connected to the same phono stage, tube preamp and amp (all respectable models) and then a pair of Martin Logan floor-standers.
Both tables were fitted with a Benz Micro Ace cartridge. So truly a side-by-side comparison.
Boy, I wished I could just there for ever listening this set up. It sounded amazing.
Maybe the other tables I auditioned may have sounded great as well with the same set up. But I have no way of knowing that.
And as a potential buyer who has no prior experience with turntables, it mattered to me that the dealer took the time to set up the components the way he did. Because it gave me confidence that he knows what he's doing and will help me properly set up the table for me when I purchase it from him. Unlike, say, the lady at the Well Tempered dealership.
Anyway, getting to the two tables:
Build quality of both is top-notch. While the Clearaudio Concept is very easy on the eye with smooth and seductive curves, the VPI tables have a rugged, organic solidity to them that makes them very appealing. They look as if a person made it, rather than a machine.
Both were quite heavy compared to the other sets -- this has to do with the aluminium/steel platter as well as the steel reinforced plinth. The tonearms are steel as well.
They look ready to last you a lifetime.
Now for the music:
Scout--
Very dynamic, puts out a big soundstage, detailed, tight bass, clear highs -- excellent all round. But also left me oddly cold and uninvolved. I can't quite explain it better than that.
And the Traveler?
Less dynamic than the Scout, smaller soundstage, slightly less detail, slightly looser bass, not as clear on the highs. But also warm, smooth, intimate and involving. It really drew me into the music, and made my hair stand on end.
Also, don't get me wrong, the Traveler was dynamic, threw a nice soundstage, was fairly detailed and was excellent on both highs and lows. But the Scout clearly bested it (by only a bit) on all these parameters.
But why did the Traveler seem to have so much more 'heart'?
I don't know, really. I don't think I was biased because I could buy the Traveler for cheaper. The Scout isn't really that much more expensive and was well within my budget. In fact, I was going to audition only the Scout but added the Traveler to the list only because I saw it at the shop.
But anyway, I loved the Traveler. And am almost ready to order it.

Now I need to choose a cartridge with a budget of $500-$1000
These are my choices (keep in mind that I already have a good phono stage that can accept cartridges with output of 2.5mV or more):

Nagaoka MP-300 (I heard this is warmer and smoother than the MP-500. That right?)
Dynavector 10x5 High Output Version
Clearaudio Virtuoso Ebony (i fear this may be too bright for my liking)
Benz Micro Ace (might be tough to get the High Output version and it's at the top end of my budget)
Benz Micro Silver (might have trouble getting this immediately)
Grado Gold 1

Also I still have the offer for the Koetsu Rosewood for less than $2000. Quite tempting even though I have to add a separate phono stage.

I prefer a warmer, smoother sound, even if that means losing a bit of detail (but that doesn't mean I don't want any detail!). I am also not a big fan of the Ortofon 2M range.

Any picks/suggestions/recommendations?

Thanks again.

 

If you prefer a warmer, smoother sound try the Grado Reference Sonata 1 or Master 1.

 

At the very least go to the Trans-Fi website. While I can't compare it to those you listed, some very high dollar systems on Agon find it suitable. Paired with a Denon 103 it has the potential to perform well with any cartridge upgrade. Dark Lantern website has some info.
I was in your situation and researched for over a year, was told just skip all the future upgrades. Very pleased.