Reel to reel deck that will play 2 and 4 track

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by SBC, Jul 5, 2015.

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  1. SBC

    SBC Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Hello all,
    I am a reel to reel novice, so please be kind. I am looking to get a reel to reel deck and have read about 2 track vs 4 track, etc. My question is: is there a deck outfitted to play both 2 and 4 track? Does such a thing exist? If so, what brands and models would you all recommend. My budget is about $500. Thanks all!!
     
  2. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Otari mx-5050 BII. A great deck that's reliable as it is ubiquitous and fits well within your budget. Plays 2 track & 4 track, only records 2 track. Takes 10.5" NAB reels, offers either 7 1/2 & 15 ips operation or 3 3/4 & 7 1/2 ips. Simple modification allows you to choose between all 3 speeds easily rather than the 2 you get on the front panel.
     
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  3. Arnold_Layne

    Arnold_Layne Forum Resident

    Location:
    Waldorf, MD USA
    Technics RS1500 (R 2T P 2T and 4T); RS1506 (R 4T P 2T and 4T), are two more decks to consider
     
  4. Mister Charlie

    Mister Charlie "Music Is The Doctor Of My Soul " - Doobie Bros.

    Location:
    Aromas, CA USA
    I used a Teac 4 channel from the 70s (3340S) which had four channels, all switchable to on or off.
     
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  5. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    I have the A-2340, which is the same model but only takes 7" reels. It also runs 3.75 and 7.5 IPS, and I believe the 3340 takes big and small reels, and can run 7.5 & 15 IPS.

    Either way, they are excellent performers and quite rugged, and don't cost much. I got mine a few months ago, already serviced, for $250.
     
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  6. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    The Teac A 3340 S does not have true 2 track heads. Which means it sort of can be made to, but is not. Otari MX 5050 B II does. The Ampex ATR 700/Teac A 7300 has it as an optional extra (many have it), Technics RS 1500 does also. And most of these are over $500 machines in plug and play condition.
     
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  7. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    What does this mean, that they are not half-track heads?
     
  8. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    It has 4 channel, 4 track heads. It is a Quadraphonic machine, many musicians used them for home demos. Half track recordings play best on half track heads. And give better signal/noise ratios.
     
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  9. Mister Charlie

    Mister Charlie "Music Is The Doctor Of My Soul " - Doobie Bros.

    Location:
    Aromas, CA USA
    This is true, and no crosstalk.
     
  10. Doug Sclar

    Doug Sclar Forum Legend

    Location:
    The OC
    There is a bit of confusion here.

    Some of the above mentioned decks are 2 track decks with 1/2 track heads, but also have an additional 1/4 track head that can be switched into the playback circuit. In this case you can play a 1/4 track tape, which generally has 4 tracks, 2 recorded in each direction. You can only hear two at a time, assuming correct alignment, and you have to flip the tape to get to the other two.

    The 3340 mentioned upthread is different. It is also a 1/4 track format but it uses all 4 tracks at the same time and they all play in the same direction. Of course you can still play a standard prerecorded 1/4" stereo reel, but you'll have to flip it to get all the content, and of course mute the reversed tracks.
     
  11. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Which is true. The Teac does not have 2 track heads, only 4 track/4 channel heads. And Doug Sclar's advice here applies.
     
  12. jcmusic

    jcmusic Forum Resident

    Location:
    Terrytown, La.
    Look into the Otari MX 5050 B II as suggested by the other poster you cannot get a better deck for the money....
     
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  13. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    Just for clarity, here is a concise list of tape formats, 2 track vs 4 track. The decks that play both are usually two track recorders which have an extra 4 track playback head for convenience. The tape speeds are also to be considered. Most two tracks are 7.5/ 15 ips. Most 4 track recorders are 3.75/ 7.5 ips. It is uncommon to find a recorder that plays three speeds, 3.75/ 7.5/ 15 ips, and I do not recall any manufacturer that produced a 2 track/ 4 track machine with three speeds.

    all the formats are 1/4 inch tape
    1) full track mono: early monaural suitcase type tape recorders for home use, all of these are tube type, and not necessarily a serious high fidelity recorder (some of these can be tweaked to become outstanding performers) The track width was 1/4 inch, or the full width of the tape, thus called "full track".
    2) half track mono: early portable tape recorders mostly for dictation, the track width is approx 1/8 inch, or half the width of the tape. You recorded side A, then flipped the tape to record side B
    3) two track stereo: also known as "inline heads" were early stereo tape decks for the hi fi enthusiast, and stereo tape was the earliest commercially available stereo format. The tape speeds were usually 7.5ips for pre-recorded tapes, although the decks had two or three speeds, 1.875/ 3.75/ 7.5 ips. The track width is 1/8 inch for each channel, so this format was side A only, then you had to rewind the tape. The inline decks could also be used for half track mono recording.
    4) four track stereo: is a true end user home recording format for convenience. Each track is approx 1/16 inch wide or 1/4 the width of the tape (slightly less to allow for a physical guard track on the tape to prevent crosstalk) This stereo format provides a side B so that the user did not have to rewind the tape after play. This format also provides twice the recording time as the previous. For the pre-recorded tape, the footage on the reel was halved, a cost saving move for the manufacturers. The pre-recorded tapes were also lighter in weight, also a cost saving advantage. Four track stereo has lower specs all around vs inline, but at 7.5 ips, still high quality with low noise is realized. In the early 70's the pre-recorded tape speed was halved to 3.75 ips. Manufacturers advertised greater convenience, faster rewind times, however the actual motivation IMO was again half the tape required on the reel, a reduction in material costs and shipping weight, a cost saving advantage for them..... no advantage to the consumer. There is a very audible degradation at 3.75 ips, compromised frequency range, higher distortion, lowered tape saturation, higher noise floor (tape hiss) plus high speed mastering up to 8x which really sounded quite bad... almost as bad as the 8 track cartridges. (mastering at 3.75 inches at real time would have been more acceptable, sound-wise)
    5) four track multi-track and quad: This is a professional and semi-pro format intended for studio use. There were also quadraphonic 4 channel decks as well, strictly for home use. The semi-pro units were typically 7.5/ 15 ips; The quad units typically 3.75/ 7.5 ips. The multi-track decks provide simultaneous recording of all four tracks, or any combination of them. A synch feature allows the engineer to play back one or more tracks, and record one or more simultaneously in sync. Home decks do not include this feature. The 4 track multi-track and 4 track home stereo formats are compatible with each other. Any tape recorded on a home 4 track stereo can be played on channels 1 & 3 on a 4 track multi-track. (however channels 2 and 4 multi-track will play backward on a home 4 track stereo deck) Also any half track stereo "inline" tape can be played back on a 4 channel multi-track on channels 1 and 4 without much degradation of s/n ratio.
    6) two track mastering deck: For professional and semi-pro use, the half track mastering deck is for making stereo or mono masters. The half track mastering deck is compatible with the old inline head tape decks for home use. The tapes recorded on these machines can be played back interchangeably, except for some early inline two tracks which do not play at 15 ips.

    notes:
    two track 15 ips is the best format for home recording. (recommended)
    two track 7.5 ips is very good, and saves tape. The freq response is usually still beyond 20,000 cycles and the noise floor still very low... bass resp is slightly better
    four track at 15 ips is also very good for home recording. The 1/4 track 4 channel multi track can get twice as much music program per reel at 15 ips.
    four track 3.75 ips is a compromised format, the least desirable for home recording.
    four track at 1.875 ips is for voice recording only

    Reel to reel recording is lots of fun, and it's analogue at its finest,
    Happy recording,
    Steve VK
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  14. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season

    Location:
    Minnesota
    And at one point dirt cheap. Checking Ebay right now maybe they aren't pennies on the dollar anymore for a good one but still, it's one hell of a machine for the cost. This was the go-to deck for radio stations and as they have dumped their analog equipment, they've flooded the market. I'm sure some of them are beat beyond belief but it is a very serviceable deck. You can't go wrong with this machine. It's what I'd use.

    In fact, what I'd do is go to my local radio station and ask for engineer. I'd tell him you'd like to buy a well functioning Otari and see what happens. He may still have three in the back room. If he's an old fart, he may have even rebuilt the decks himself. I'd like one of those.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
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  15. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    And if you're nice, said engineer might even load one up in your car and say, "Hope You Enjoy It, On The House". Occasionally, you might even get gifted with one. I did. Twice!
     
  16. empirelvr

    empirelvr "That's *just* the way it IS!" - Paul Anka

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    In reality, there is a slight difference in the track specs between 4-Track Stereo and 4 Track multitrack. They are not, strictly speaking, interchangeable.The width of the individual tracks, as well as the width of the between track "landings" are subtly different.It definitely does work, but it's not a substitute for an actual 4-track stereo head stack.
    See: http://www.jrfmagnetics.com/Nortronics_pro/nortronics_silver/pdfs/p10.pdf
     
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  17. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Yes, this is correct. And also note that the multitrack 4 channel 1/4" machines often use IEC1 EQ. Whereas 1/4 track, 2 channel usually uses NAB aka IEC2 EQ.
     
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  18. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    Yes, thank you, you are correct. A tape recorded on the slightly wider track should play acceptably well on the head with a slightly narrower track. The recorded tape on a slightly narrower track, when played on a head with a slightly wider track, will produce slightly more noise, since there will be a very tiny portion of "relatively unrecorded" tape passing over the gap. Since the objective of reel to reel is to get it right, I must retract my statement. The 4 track consumer consumer format is not exactly compatible with 4 track multi-track, but the recording will play reasonably well.
     
  19. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    Hey McLover,
    The NAB EQ is the standard for 7.5 ips in the USA. and I think also Europe (correct me please if this is incorrect.. maybe it is the IEC-2 equivalent) Both pro decks (1/4 track and 1/2 track) and consumer level 4 track stereo decks share the NAB standard at 7.5 ips. I have not seen any deck with selectable NAB/ IEC for 7.5 ips speed. IEC is for 15 ips.
     
  20. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    IEC II is NAB. The international standard for 1/4 track recording in 2 channel format. IEC1 is CCIR/DIN which the multitrack narrow gauge formats use.
     
  21. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    For the OP and others getting in to reel to reel, here is a simpler post, apologies for any confusion. Getting into reel to reel can be rather confusing and requires a bit of a learning curve to make the right choice of format and the tape deck that's right for you.

    1) For playback of commercial 4 track stereo pre-recorded tapes, a consumer level deck is required. The pro decks are not compatible. Some tapes were produced in discreet quad format. To play these a 4 channel quad deck will be needed.
    2) For consumer quality recording, the consumer level 2 channel 4 track stereo decks did a magnificent job. The highest quality recording is at 7.5 ips. Virtually all decks for home recording included the 3.75 ips speed, which you can record twice as much music on one reel of tape. The earliest stereo decks were "inline" head types, a superior format, but incompatible with 4 track stereo. The inline pre-recorded tapes (for example RCA Orthophonic Stereo tapes) were produced in smaller numbers, and are fetching usually $50.00 or more on ebay, certain titles hundreds of dollars.
    3) The ultimate for home recording is to buy a pro deck. I recommend a half track deck (two track mastering deck) that records at 15 ips. The Otari 5050 as suggested by other members on this forum, is a great deck for anyone on a limited budget. My favorites are the Revox PR-99 and Pioneer RT-1050. The more esoteric Revox A807, a810, etc are "drool worthy" and expensive. Teac and Sony also produced nice two track mastering decks. As a side benefit, the pro decks will play the early consumer stereo inline tapes, but are not compatible for playing pre-recorded 4 track stereo tapes.

    I hope this helps clear up any confusion,
    Steve VK
     
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  22. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Most Otari MX 5050 B II will play 1/4 track tapes too as well as record and reproduce 1/2 track Stereo as well. As there is a switchable 1/4 track playback head fitted to virtually all of that model.
     
  23. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    "The more esoteric Revox A807, a810, etc are "drool worthy" and expensive. :doh: " That would be the STUDER A-807, A-810
     
  24. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    A 807 and A 810 are Studers, and fully professional machines. And also are much less common and much more costly. However, in fine order top notch. Parts also more expensive.
     
  25. jcmusic

    jcmusic Forum Resident

    Location:
    Terrytown, La.
    Now this is true as i have a Otari MX 5050 BII and a Studer A810...
     
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