Ridiculous Vinyl Return Policy - ZIA Records

Cool to see some local flavor at SH. I frequent Zia... a lot, for what it's worth I love the chain but there are a lot of inconsistencies store to store but have learned to deal with it in my own way.

As someone mentioned earlier you may find the store manager may or may not be more or less lenient but it definitely helps to be on "good" terms with them if you want to be in the hobby long term is what I recommend. I've had to return a few new LP's myself and I know the "treat you like a crook" feeling all to well; definitely one of the downers of the hobby.

The other local stores are also great but to be honest I think they all have similar policies when it comes to returns. Best you can do is do a lot of homework before pulling the trigger and like I said stay on good terms with the manager/owner/employees!

 

I was pretty sure it was, based on the fact that he posted a link not just to a Crosley, but specifically a One Direction-branded one. To confirm my hunch, I checked his equipment profile, which states he has a VPi Scout.

 

Then his VPI Scout has a problem.

The only records I've ever bought at Zia that skipped either had invisible pressing flaws, or had visible problems I chose to take a chance with. Me. My choice. At $3 or less, I have no problem doing that. And I have several different styli I can swap in and out ... what skips with my Shure/Jico combo probably won't skip with my Nagaoka MP-110.

 

LOL! Are you kidding me! A One Direction Crosley?! You do know you can check each person's profile, right? Of course it was a sarcastic response.

And yes it really happened. I bought a bunch of vinyl from Zia over about two weeks and 5 of them turned out to have serious skips. After I cleaned them up I could visibly see the skips however I missed them in the store.
This could reasonably be explained via a couple of factors: 1. in my experience Zia's quality has really degraded and it is difficult for me to see the defects 2. I simply didn't see the defects. I admit it, I'm fallible. Or maybe I'm getting older and have a harder time seeing the defects in the store?

Either way the point of the post wasn't that, it was the return policy. I actually do appreciate many of your perspectives because it helps me to have a more well rounded understanding of typical return policies.
And while I can understand why those policies exist, I don't think it's a common experience in commerce for a consumer to be able to purchase a product (new or used) that is defective through no fault of their own, and they are not able to return it.

Take for example the recent Zeppelin "Houses" reissue with the widely reported distortion on The Ocean. One should expect to have a flawless new product, but if you buy from Zia, or some other places apparently, you cannot return it for a refund, per their own policy.

 

I guess the best policy would be to spin it before you buy it, but that's not always practical. Plus, if the place has a turntable, and won't let you spin it...buyer beware.

 

Some might argue that a record store should be more careful when inspecting, grading and purchasing used vinyl, but it would be time-consuming and difficult for the employee to detect all flaws when handling 15-20 LPs at once. Regarding brand-new LPs, it's true that under most circumstances, retailers can't return them to the distributor if there are any flaws or damages. For tax purposes, most retailers can write off inventory which is damaged or stolen.

 

When you buy used records -- that are filthy and needs cleaning - its up to you to grade them properly. The only used records I've ever heard of containing an implied warranty to play without defects are those that some fool decided to warranty. Its not the standard in all the decades I've collected.

 

When I worked in a record store, vinyl was not returnable. This was about a ten year period ending in 2011. The resurgence was in full swing, and given that new vinyl is an ever increasing slice of the pie for sales (along with $4.99 and under used CDs, still a huge draw) I wonder if distributors have re-evaluated that policy.

Also, I've bought plenty of VG-ish records and never had 5 at once that skipped... except for when my stylus was out of wack.

 

I have never heard of a music store taking returns of items that have been opened, due to the potential for recording/ripping then returning. What's to stop someone from taping it then scratching it so they can return it?

 

I also have never had it happen previously either. Wait, maybe it didn't happen? I thought it happened? Is it bad if my cartridge skips on like 50% of my albums? I just figured it was normal.

 

CD World in Lawrenceville took back CDs for any reason if you were in their frequent buyer club. Princeton Record Exchange takes back defective items of all types, new or used.

 

But in the internet age, when you can download whatever you want ilegally, I really don't know who would take the trouble to get out, buy a record, needle-drop it and then return it. I just don't see that happening anymore.

At least where I live, EVERYBODY take returns, independent sellers, record stores, etc... I think the whole 'it's our policy not to accept returns on vinyl records' might be ilegal here. Just like anything you buy new, it's supposed to work. That's why you buy it in the first place.

 

Same here. I tried to returned a defective one last year and got this from the female clerk : ¨they're imports, we sell them sealed, if they are defective in any way it's not our fault, we don't take any responsability whatsoever¨ I could have bought the cd at a third of the price, but no....I thought reggae would sound better on vinyl

 

Slander?? I'm glad you've had nothing but good experiences at Zia, but the OP had the experience he related, and I had the one I told about. That's a fact, your experience to the contrary. You seem to be taking personal offense here

 

Nope, just sticking up for 'em. Also note I said "verging on slander." I didn't say it was actually slander.

This all seems fair enough. However, like I said before, Zia does lets me exchange defective new vinyl. They have never refused me. Ever. But I would never expect a refund. Once a record is open, exchange or credit is all I could expect ... And that has been general policy at most record stores since at least the 1980s.

Thanks for the reasonable response, by the way. I realize I got a bit heated. The thing is, I used to manage record stores. I can recognize the flaws in the way Zia does things, but I've been a customer long enough that I've also seen some of what goes on behind the counter. They're doing the best they can with vinyl under their current methods of operation, which basically is to have everyone working there be a jack-of-all-trades, which means you don't really get an expert in any one thing. But what they need to do is have a dedicated vinyl only staff. Like I said above, Danny at TBird is their best vinyl guy and he's good.

 

I actually do appreciate that you have had a contrary experience to mine, because I definitely felt like lightning struck. Like many of you I have never had this experience of so many defective at once.
I admit that I feel like a goof that I didn't catch the defects in the store. I really do try my best, just like I'm sure the people buying them at the store do.
I also echo what you said about the Camelback location. A few years back they had some great stuff and it seems like they just don't get the same quality or it moves quickly.

Also thanks for the tip regarding Danny. I like to find the vinyl guys so I can chat it up a bit. I've been shopping at Zia since high school (circa '86) so, like you, and many others, I do prefer local.

 

Just so you can spot him, Danny's about fifty, has shaggy graying hair, and often can be spotted filing vinyl or working at the information desk in the back of the shop. He used to be a manager at the Tower Records in Phoenix back in the day. Super-friendly dude.

 

agreed

 

I actually prefer Zia over Revolver Records. I've found better quality stuff there than I have at RR.

 

The peak of vinyl quality was in the mid 60's to the late 70's because so many were being made. It was easy for a manufacturer to isolate a problem from customer feedback, and resolution was quick.
Then as now they cannot test every record but the smaller quantities of today mean that isolation of issues or random flaws becomes impossible during the manufacturing process.
In the early 80's they gave us an excellent solution to the problem called the CD. The CD worked full stop, and in the rare occasion there was an issue, it was quantifiable.
If you decide to go with vinyl, its a turkey shoot of your own making.
If I went back to vinyl, I would not expect CD quality control. It is just not possible.

 

There are always 2 sides to every story. With the new Turntable revival pressing plants work different from the heydays. The mass produced LP's back then hardly had any quality issues plus most people were not as obsessed with a CD like perfect sound from an album. Now you got a bunch of guys who are used to CD - perfect sound, zero surface noise etc plux some simply have no clue how to properly install a cart and get the weight VTA and Azimuth correct. Others are into High End and accept nothing but absolute perfection.
The quality control in the few left pressing plants orking on 30 year old machinery in little quantities produce a certain amount of less than prior accepted copies per run and just ship them out.
Now it goes to the distributors and it all depends on their willingness to refund returned records. Large chain stores amazon or music direct etc. move enough units to return records from their customers AND have a way stronger agenda to deal with their suppliers than the small record store. They have to sell 10 or more new records at full price to cover one returned album, in case they cannot return that to their supplier.
So it is basically a matter of keeping the business alive when people come to return records for minor defect I am not talking about obvious cratches or real mis pressings.
I sell used records via discogs and wonder for what reasons people want to return used vinyl.
Recently I sold a 20 year old copy of Eric B + Rekim's LET THE RHTHM HIT 'EM i stated as vg+ not near mint.
Since I like that album I played both sides on my THORENS TD 206 with a Sumiko BPS EVOIIO and was really surprised how good that record sounded. A bit ióf surface noise before some tracls but otherwise really nice- That album was very low in output, though, but no scratches or skips.
The customer said he wanted to return it since there was a skip on A3and 4. I can only guess his tt was either tracking with the wrong weight or not alligned properly nut in order to keep the customer satisfied and I really like the LP anyway and thoought it was not the best idea to put it on SALE a few years ago I accepted a return..
Always try to understand the sellers pov or in the end there won't be any small Vinyl shops left like in our region. From 3 it went to 2 then only 1 plus used records to none but a bunch of newVinyl at he local mega media store. Do you want that ?

 

Are there consumer laws in the US that make the retailer responsible for making good on faulty product? In the EU they can't refuse a refund (not legally anyway). Local Trading Standards would be the place to go if you got stuck with unreturnable faulty product. I would have thought that it was good business to take a hit to keep long time customers. Looks like eventually these retailers will go out of business as more people shop on line where you get an exchange or refund.

 

There is a store in Sarnia, Ontario, called 'The Cheeky Monkey'. They sell CDs mostly, but do have a new and used LP section. I asked about their return policy on new LPs and was told "no returns or refunds on vinyl - no exceptions - period". I was told that the reason is that teenagers would purchase a new LP, take it home and download it to a computer, and then return the LP (usually scratched and/ or dirty) to the store for a refund, claiming a defect.

I replied that if I am paying $30 or more for a single LP I expect perfection and if there were any manufacturer's defects I would except a replacement copy or a refund - but I told the owners I wouldn't want to get in an argument over a return, so to avoid that I would not purchase anything from them.

BTW, for used LPs it depends on the price - anything relatively inexpensive that has a defect I trash and chalk it up to experience.