Tone controls - old school liability, or sonic salvation?

Not pointless at all for me. I have a Marantz 3600 in my shop system and I use that functionality on it all the time.

 

I feel that I need just a little EQ additional here - I feel that my system's sound is almost there.But then again..I am in no hurry to do anything so far.

 

Fair enough. I'm not preaching you shouldn't use one if you want, just that there is a price. Especially to the higher frequencies.

 

You seem to have a bit of background in this area. And agreed that some tone controls may be a bit too sweeping in this regard - a more precise approach makes sense. Any particular EQ products you'd recommend?

 

On the subject of controls and the lofty question of,do you dare change what the musician or more accurately the sound engineer's thoughts of what a recording should sound like, think about this, the recording was completed in a controlled environment with optimum conditions for listening and far better gear than it normaly gets played back on.
That being said, music is played back on such a variety of gear , in so many types of environments, ( outside in a shop, on the back porch down the road in a car, windows up, windows down,etc.) you have to have a way to tweak the sound to make up for some of the issues working against a good listening of the recording, we don't all listen in a vacuum, and just because it's a high dollar piece of equipment, that does not mean it will always be on a dust free,golden pedestal, it needs the necessary controls to function in real life.
A guy that has a high end system in the garage deserves his system to reproduce the recording in just as high quality of play back as possible, and because of environmental conditions if he needs to tweak the sound a little why not.
I say this, in this way because what I am hearing from some on hear sounds almost dictatorial,if you had it your way their would be no free choice, because we can not be trusted..
They ( whoever "they" are) know best for the global listening community , of what sounds best for all those different ears and odd shaped heads, and who are we to question that logic.
Just my continuing thoughts on this subject, feel free to have a different opinion, it is America!

 

^ big hand clap!

 

I'd rather just listen instead!
-Bob

 

For all the time and trouble you take posting in this thread, why won't you type in a few extra key strokes to educate yourself?

 

I'm just trying to treat this whole thing a bit lightly, blue. I never meant to contend that your original point was unfounded, and I apologize that in being too flippant, I gave the impression that I was refuting your original statement. Honestly, I'd really rather spend my time educating myself about things I care more about.

My point is that I've been using tone controls (very sparingly) for many years, and I have yet to hear any deleterious effects. Not a single one. It's my opinion that any ills they may create (which I don't hear anyway) are far, far less significant than the ills they cure. I listen to classical music almost exclusively, and I'm more interested in performances than in recording quality. If I want to listen to Richter play "Pictures at an Exhibition" at his Sophia concert or Cortot, Thibaud and Casals play a Beethoven trio recorded before the advent of the RIAA curve, I know going in that I'm not going to get pristine sound quality. So maybe a little touch up with tone controls will be appropriate.

If you detect phase or other problems with EQ that truly bother you, of course you should not use them. But I will not avoid them just because they have certain technical characteristics that I cannot hear. Good listening to you!
-Bob

 

It's weird, I have a decent EQ on my C46... I hardly ever use it, but I still want to have it

 

I have the loudness button (I don't listen at loud volumes) permanently on.

 

All those resources and we all to often end up with over compressed crap and a host of other recording issues. I'm sure many musicians cringe when they hear the end results.

 

I wish I had a parametric EQ in my car. I am forced to use the crude treble, bass, and mid on the car stereo, and I am not happy with the results. And, because I can hear the difference between lossless and lossy in the car, one always has a slightly different tone profile than the other, and it annoys me.

 

A lot of stuff from the 60's that was done to sound good on AM radio can really benefit from some bass boost and some upper speech frequency cut.

That's just one example.

 

I am not going to disagree with you, but I will throw this little tid bit out there.
My girl friend was in a band in the late 70's and early 80's, they toured with van halen as an opening band in the summer of '81, she does not play anymore due to finger tips being dead of feeling and hurts really bad if she tries.
Anyway she has serious hearing loss from all the time in front of amps and at gigs, so I would not be so sure some musicians can really hear as well as they did when they wrote and recorded their songs originally, they might be cringing thinking, did I record that!

 

Only the music matters, blue. I'm sure we're as one on that!
-Bob

 

Both, or neither

 

On this forum, the sound quality matters, too.

 

IMO it's the basic premise of the entire site.

 

None of my amps (Naim and Croft) have had tone controls.
To be honest i've never missed, wanted or needed them.

 

On the one hand, technically I agree completely, on the other I understand and know that this is an industry where technical ignorance is not only accepted but upheld as a virtue by (not everyone, but ...) enough people that very few will use them correctly. In that context, the McIntosh concept of "Environmental EQ" implemented as a one time setup with a non user adjustable or user-adjustment-deterred setup makes a lot of sense if you have a dealer network who can implement its deployment. Mc tried and.....the idea sadly fizzled, but it was technically valid.

Whereas the conventional Baxandall tone stack does allow the occasional taming of outlier records with the option, if implemented as Marantz did, so it can be switched out entirely, you have a not really perfect solution, but maybe better than none.

There is a local audiophile and bass player out here who has built a bass preamp with what amounts to a Pultec EQP inside it (see http://vintagewindings.com/products/VintageWindings EQ-1A.html ) and I heard it patched into a playback chain playing a mono summed mix of several Rolling Stones tracks. I think the idea would work for a hi-fi preamp if that sort of coloration is what you want, and I suspect it is what at least some of the posters here really do want. Actually it impressed me enough to buy a pair of the coils from Mr. Preston, but they have sat untouched for quite awhile.

 

Wanna' build a Pultec? You don't need a fancy torus. The little inductors from any electronics parts supplier will work just fine.

 

So Morinix... You wanna build me a Pultec? How much?!?!?

 

In life we are all different, as in the gear we own and can afford, the quality of recorded music we play and can afford.
Tone controls are a necessary part of any stereo system, just incase you need the option, think of them as windshield wipers, you don't always turn them on when you drive your car, but when the weather is not clear you may need them.
Never hurts to have backup.

 

More electronics=More noise, Less electronics=better sound, less noise, less distortion. Simple