Star Trek TNG-A Die Hard TOS Fan First View & Perspective

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Jeffczar, Jul 3, 2015.

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  1. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    I don't know. I hear what you're saying and I somewhat agree, but what annoyed me most about the character (if I can separate him from the actor) was his often smarmy boy-genius demeanor who could trivially change the laws of physics by means of school science projects, etc.

    I think his character would have been less despised had he been just an average boy on a starship, trying to fit in and get by and having the odd feature episode. In fact, my favorite Wesley episode (and TNG episode) had him playing just a normal kid involved in a cover up - The First Duty.
     
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  2. Clipper Sylvania

    Clipper Sylvania L'écharpe d'abricot

    Well, it's very hard for anyone to follow in John Colicos' footsteps as a silver-tongued liar, whether in the Alpha Quadrant or amongst the Twelve Colonies of Man. I agree that the handling of the Klingons got old pretty quick and their depiction was annoying. I forgot who was responsible for the transition---reportedly Ronald Moore---from the scheming Soviet stand-ins to Viking samurai, but I'd like to have a word or two with them about it. If it was Moore, well, that wouldn't be the last science fiction franchise he tampered with.

    I agree with you: The Undiscovered Country is the height of their portrayal in any filmed element of Star Trek in my opinion. Those Klingons made interesting adversaries. TNG and DS9 Klingons struck me as lucky to have figured out space travel.
     
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  3. MikeInFla

    MikeInFla Glad to be out of Florida

    Location:
    Kalamazoo, MI
    I am a fan of most Trek series (never got into Voyager, I watched it for several seasons and just didn't care for it). I remember when TNG was new and I was determined to hate it. Encounter At Farpoint did nothing to change my already made opinion. The first season just isn't every good. As somone else said it gets much better in the second season but by the time it came out I had already given up on the series (I came back to it in season 3 after some friends at school talked about how good it was and it had indeed gotten a lot better so I went back and caught up on season 2). I like TNG and TOS equally and even find "DS9" and "Enterprise" to be well done shows. One of my favorites from TNG is Chain Of Command where Picard is being tortured with bright lights... I'll leave it at that as not to ruin it.

    [​IMG]

    I also enjoy the fan made stuff expanding on TOS. Keep in mind these are fans not actors and they have done a wonderful job.

     
  4. dewey02

    dewey02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The mid-South.
    I like Wesley.
    I despise Troy. In addition to her stupid "sensing", that dress she wore always looked like she pulled it on crooked! :)

    [​IMG]
     
  5. thegage

    thegage Forum Currency Nerd

    Although his ability to change the laws of physics was not trivial, as discerned by The Traveler and which determined Wesley's destiny.

    John K.
     
  6. Anthology123

    Anthology123 Senior Member

    Wait until Riker gets his beard, the show's stories start to improve.
     
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  7. BrewDrinkRepeat

    BrewDrinkRepeat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merchantville NJ
    Aside of the the first two seasons, I actually liked both the character of Wesley and the acting of Wil Wheaton. He definitely developed a lot over the course of the show... although him and his cadet buddies should have all been expelled for their Culver Starburst shenanigans. (Sorry, spoiler there!)

    As to Worf, he always got the short end of the stick, to the point that it simulatenously annoyed the crap out of me and made me feel really bad for his character. Counting how many times he got shot down by Picard would make for a terrible drinking game, the hangover would be immense (far beyond that of even a Pan-Galactic Gargleblaster).

    And I never understood why he had short(er) hair in the earlier episodes, and kept it in a pony tail later... Starfleet certainly respected non-human races in their ranks, didn't they? I always found this to be such an odd thing for them to do...

    I also never understood why Worf was Chief of Security but stationed on the bridge (makes little sense), and why he and his security forces rarely seemed to run anyway, they were always walking toward danger. (Hmmm, maybe that'll be the name of my next album, Walking Towards Danger...)
     
  8. Clipper Sylvania

    Clipper Sylvania L'écharpe d'abricot

    In Marina Sirtis' defense, her early costume choices appear to have been dictated by the particular sartorial sensibilities of one Eugene Wesley Roddenberry. I think the scoop there is supposed to "reflect the Starfleet delta insignia" instead of being merely for the display of Sirtis---but since Roddenberry was reportedly involved, I'd bet on the latter being the case. I would say that the design was inspired by the original 1966 scoop neck combined with, "This is 1986 and we're syndicated; we can get away with so much more now".

    One of the best lines in the entire TNG series was uttered by Ronny Cox when he told Troi to wear a standard uniform.
     
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  9. Solitaire1

    Solitaire1 Carpenters Fan

    I respectfully disagree about the character of Troi. I think a problem with her character is that the writers didn't quite know what to do with her. But she had her moments in the later seasons. As far as Marina Sirtis goes, she did some outstanding voice acting in the animated series Gargoyles as one of the villains (her character is about as far from Troi as you can get). BTW, Gargoyles featured a large number of voice actors who were appeared on Star Trek (in the various series and movies), including: Jonathan Frakes, Marina Sirtis, Michael Dorn, and Nichelle Nichols (I'll avoid saying more to avoid spoilers).
     
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  10. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    I agree with that, but he did have some standout Klingon politics based (double) episodes in the latter seasons and I also liked his work in DS9.

    I think the answer to that has nothing to do with Starfleet sensibilities. I think the show didn't quite know how to portray a Klingon early on. This goes to some of the silly lines and growls that he was fed early on, to the makeup which gave him a novelty big head look in the beginning. Over time, they refined his look, which included the longer hair to make him look less comical and more regal. The evolution of the Worf character was very well done IMO.
     
  11. BrewDrinkRepeat

    BrewDrinkRepeat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merchantville NJ
    I thought Worf was a million times better on DS9 than he was on TNG (although his "relationship" -- quotes intentional -- with Jadzia drove me bonkers. He treated her in such a completely inconsiderate and borderline misogynistic manner so often, in the real world I can't imagine a scenario where someone like her would've put up with him!)

    When they grew his hair out in later seasons he should've worn it down, like all the other Klingons. You never saw another with a ponytail. You also don't really see any other non-human species in Starfleet that were forced to alter their normal appearance. Just poor ol' Worf. :cry:

    Most of my annoyances with the ST universe (all variants) have to do with things I find to be wholly unrealistic. For example, Starfleet refers to virtually every planet with a number -- kinda makes sense for the most part from the perspective of an outsider, this is the fourth planet in the system yada yada yada... but then when the inhabitants of these worlds also self-refer to their own planet using that number it throws the whole thing off. Imagine if we referred to our planet as Sol 3... unrealistic.

    And isn't it just a bit too coincidental that the Romulans and the Reemans live on Romulus and Reemus... two names that are straight out of ancient Earth mythology? Hmmmmmm...
     
  12. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    Since the entire Klingon species is usually portrayed as borderline misogynistic, Worf was simply acting in a culturally representative manner, at times. But because of his human upbringing, he is also far more sensitive than a normal Klingon would be. Jadzia was very familiar with Klingon customs and way of life and she respected both them and Worf's character, inner strengths and personal sacrifices. She relished the challenge of the relationship and besides, she often gave as good as she got.

    Why should he be forced into wearing his hair in a particular way? It's his choice to wear it in a ponytail and that's all that matters. He was raised in a human society after all.

    Not unrealistic when you take into account that all communication between species are translations made by the universal translator, so of course, it would translate a planet or a place name into something understandable by each party.
     
  13. greelywinger

    greelywinger Osmondia

    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio USA
    They only time I had a problem with the 'Wesley' character is that on board a starship of the best & brightest, the problem would too often be solved by 15-year-old kid.

    Darryl
     
  14. BrewDrinkRepeat

    BrewDrinkRepeat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merchantville NJ
    He was, of course, but he also had such a reverence for his Klingon heritage. I've always gotten the impression that his short hair, and later his ponytailed hair, were by regulation and not by his choice. When he was off-duty off-ship he often was ponytail-less. Just my gut feeling, no real confirmation either way of course.

    Considering it's only Romulus/Reemus and Vulcan that really fall into that category, most of the other species have names and homeworlds with no connection to human civilization / language / mythology, I still find it to be unrealistic.

    (And then, of course, you have the whole matter of Romulan government titles following those of ancient Rome: praetors, proconsuls, senators...)
     
  15. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    But surely it's still a matter of translation just like the popular Klingon drink is called 'blood wine' - it's the closest translation. Of course some words don't have translations and are called by their Klingon names, such as the Bat'leth.

    But these are just trivialities in the grand scheme of things. I'd have a much bigger problem in magic tech like transporters/replicators, faster than light travel, inertial dampers, moneyless societty, holodecks and even universal translators, if I really didn't want to suspend disbelief.
     
  16. He was first and foremost the Tactical Officer, whose station in on the bridge. CoS was more of an annex function to that.
     
  17. Jeffczar

    Jeffczar Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    OK. Season 2, Episode 9. Measure Of A Man......Absolutely fantastic ! 100 percent worthy of what Trek at its best is all about. Simply outstanding. Season 2 definitely is improving and am looking forward to episodes such as The Inner Light. TNG is earning a place in my heart next to the original series. Maybe not quite as dear but I can see it is definitely not the dumbed down shoot me up sci fi I thought it was. There is the trademark probing into the human condition there which made the original so unique. Episodes like this one with that kind of depth and philosophical undertones is exactly what I was talking about in my original post ! I would say it is among the best of either series. And I definitely am not a Wesley Crusher hater, I think he pulls the part off about as well as anyone could and actually adds to some of the episodes. The one where he falls in love with the ambassador girl was actually pretty touching. Looking forward to the rest, I can see there was a lot of thought, care and good intentions involved in keeping the sho worthy of being called Star Trek.
     
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  18. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    It certainly was never that. Picard always takes the reasoned, analytical approach, in fact, moreso than Kirk.
     
  19. zakyfarms

    zakyfarms White cane lying in a gutter in the lane.

    Location:
    San Francisco
     
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  20. MikeInFla

    MikeInFla Glad to be out of Florida

    Location:
    Kalamazoo, MI
    I did not like Worf at all (or Yar). I thought for a Klingon Worf was pretty weak and always lost every fight he had. Then this happened: (I will not spoil for those who haven't seen but if you have seen it you know what I am talking about)



    After seeing that Worf had my utmost respect. He became better with each episode and I agree he was even better on DS9.

    I also enjoyed Worf's Klingon calisthenics.
     
  21. Meng

    Meng Forum Resident

    I confidently predict you will not be disappointed.

    It was a worthy Hugo award winner in 1993.
     
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  22. Clipper Sylvania

    Clipper Sylvania L'écharpe d'abricot

    With regards to Lieutenant Worf's combat record, always consider this when assessing his capabilities. The trope isn't named after him for nothing.
     
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  23. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    Michael Dorn has also been pitching a new Trek TV series for some time now, where Worf would be the focus, tentatively called Captain Worf. As far as I know his pitch hasn't been explicitly rejected by TPTP, but it's also unlikely that another series will be made any time soon due to various rights issues.
     
  24. BrewDrinkRepeat

    BrewDrinkRepeat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merchantville NJ
    Probably the single-best episode of the first two seasons (although I never really understood how Starfleet could have ever considered Data to be anything less than a sentient, self-aware individual and not simply a machine that was their property... but without that there would be no story, so... :)).

    You've got a lot of great episodes ahead of you before you get to "The Inner Light." You will notice a distinct shift in season three; the visuals (both the special effects as well as just the general lighting and scenery) are noticeably improved over the first two seasons, the background hum of the ship is in place, the stories are much better, and the acting much improved (probably because the characters are really starting to develop here).

    And the final episode in season three (a cliffhanger into season four) is generally considered to be one of the better episodes of the entire series and sets up several story arcs that carry through to the end of the series and into the movies as well.
     
  25. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    Interestingly, Paramount recently invited a fan to pitch of TV series that he developed, titled Star Trek: Uncharted.

    "In what would likely be a dream come true for any Trekkie out there, Paramount Pictures has made the unprecedented move to invite Star Trek fan Michael Gummelt to pitch a new TV series that could allow him to boldly go where no fan as gone before."
    http://www.slashfilm.com/star-trek-uncharted/
     
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