How to buy a used turntable???

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by stay crunchy, Jul 7, 2015.

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  1. stay crunchy

    stay crunchy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Austin-area, Texas
    Hey folks, I could use a little help. I'm considering buying a used "vintage" turntable, but don't really know what to look for to physically distinguish a good one from a bad one. I'm not looking for responses like "this feature is better than that feature," or "this brand model is better than that brand model," but rather something like "make sure that this or that doesn't rattle/wiggle, etc." I know there are no absolutes when buying used gear, but I would like some objective criteria to help go along with my gut feeling.

    Is there a comprehensive list of things to look for or consider when buying a used table? If I can't listen to it first (like at a garage sale), what should I look for? There is a YouTube video of a guy discussing the finer points of buying a used Technics that has been very helpful. Besides that, I haven't really found much information that wasn't already quite obvious.

    I'm sure this thread could be helpful to a lot of people out there, like me. Personally, I'm looking for a direct drive model with an adjustable VTA. (And before anyone says, "why don't you just get a new one?," I have a newer TT. I'm looking to build a secondary vintage system.)

    If this has already been discussed in a previous thread, I would be grateful if someone could direct me there.

    Thanks again!
     
  2. dividebytube

    dividebytube Forum Resident

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    1 - Narrow down the brands that are direct drive and have adjustable VTA.

    2 - Determine your budget

    3 - price in repairs for older, vintage turntables

    4 - price in a new cartridge

    5 - if possible buy a brand that is popular and can be repaired if needed. An example of this is the venerable Technics SL1200. Very popular and upgradeable.

    6 - best to check out the turntable yourself. If you're not good at setting one up, this is where a dealer comes in handy. If this isn't possible, buy from an experienced seller who know how to pack one for shipping, can answer your questions, or handle a return.


    For example: For belt-drive turntables I generally stick with VPI since they have been around for a long time, parts are still available for most of their turntables, and there is also an upgrade path. I do have an 80s Dual CS5000 that has been quite reliable, but if anything serious ever breaks, I'll be looking for a replacement.
     
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  3. stay crunchy

    stay crunchy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Austin-area, Texas
    Thanks dividebytube, I've already considered 1-5 (all great points!), but I'm really interested in your #6. Could you be more specific? What should I physically be looking for when buying a used/vintage table? Cosmetics aside, what should I look for mechanically? How can I tell if it's mechanically sound and well-built/well-engineered? I know a lot of people go by weight and shy away from plastic parts, but that's about it.
     
  4. Subvet

    Subvet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern Maine
    I would highly recommend you speak to someone local that can handle a repair. A garage sale, flea market or thrift shop find is likely to need some level of repair, now or in the near future. The brand might matter in that case. There are a couple folks in the Listening to on Vinyl thread that rebuild their own tables. They may be able to add some info if you ask, perhaps via a PM (I'd search the thread on turntable or motor or something like that).

    The latest thread is:
    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/listening-to-on-vinyl-part-271.446909/
     
    stay crunchy likes this.
  5. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    Well, I'd say you'd determine if its well built on the internet before you ever see the table in person. Once you're in front of it, check the bearings on the tonearm by moving it back and forth in its normal range of motion, and if possible listen to it to confirm it's working okay. At least this what I suggest for the Technics, which are the only tables meeting your criteria I have experience buying used.
     
  6. stay crunchy

    stay crunchy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Austin-area, Texas
    Awesome! That is the kind of advice I was hoping to get. Thank you so much!
     
  7. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    No problem. And where in Texas are you? Specifically, what's your nearest Craigslist page? Great deals to be had I'm sure.
     
  8. stay crunchy

    stay crunchy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Austin-area, Texas
    I live near Austin and there are some pretty good offerings sometimes. Right now I'm looking at a Pioneer PL550 in great condition. A lot of things get picked quickly, though, since it's a musical city and everyone one is into vintage stuff. The stores that sell restored vintage equipment are pretty spendy....and so are the repair shops. I missed out last week on a Marantz 2385 AND a Marantz 6270Q, $40 for both!!!! Guy posted that he was going to donate them if they didn't sell. They were gone in less than 3 hours AND he posted them at 11pm!!!! I texted, emailed and called. No response. I was sick for two days.
     
  9. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    I feel you man. There was a Lenco idler wheel table going for pocket change - same situation, posted late at night, gone by the morning. I'd jump on the Pioneer.
     
  10. stay crunchy

    stay crunchy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Austin-area, Texas
    I'm going to check it out tomorrow morning.

    I also found a Dual 1245 for $40 in San Antonio. From the listing, it apparently needs some work...
     
  11. Dentdog

    Dentdog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta
    If you're looking for something in that $40-100 range it's going to be a crap shoot. At least it won't break you if you crap out.
    You pay more on Audiogon or US Audiomart but people selling on there do have their reputations on the line.
    Good advice from the above posters.
    Good luck. Vinyl is special but it takes special equipment to make it so.
     
  12. My advice: record store. Usually people who run them are pretty knowledgable in them. The real kicker with buying online is usually shipping. Ask them the model numbers, and Google them for a second opinion (AudioKarma is good, and of course good ol Stevie Hoffman forums)
    Good luck :righton:

    Quick edit: Also, DO NOT buy a "all in one system" or a Crosley for that matter, they are rarely ever decent, get something's with red and white RCA plugs
     
  13. Jack Flannery

    Jack Flannery Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Messing with my first turntable. Put a SME 3009II arm on a Thorens TD126. I'll get it right but it isn't now. Kinda fun.

    I see you are in TX. If Houston, there are a few places that sell used stuff.
     
  14. stay crunchy

    stay crunchy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Austin-area, Texas
    Yeah, cheap is definitely a crapshoot. I plan on buying from someone locally for this table. I'd rather not have to deal with a vintage table being shipped.
     
  15. Gretsch6136

    Gretsch6136 Forum Resident

    Basic things to look for:

    With a belt drive, take the belt off and spin the platter by hand. A good one will spin completely silent, and take well over a minute to come to a stop. Any noises or binding means the bearing/spindle is shot, or at best needs urgent cleaning and re-lubrication. Pull the platter off the plinth to inspect the spindle. If its clean, highly polished and without score marks or other obvious wear, then a re-lube is likely all that's needed. If the spindle looks worn, keep walking.

    With the tone arm make sure there is no slop, play, binding, clunking, or grinding in its bearings. Move the arm through its complete arc, back and forth, and up and down to feel for these things. Also apply a slight rotational twisting force to the tonearm shaft with thumb and forefinger to make sure it's mounting bushes are ok. You don't want it to be able to twist at all.

    Make sure the motor runs silently and at the correct speed. Use a stroboscope and mains powered artificial light source to make sure.

    Make sure the controls and adjustments work correctly.

    Make sure its plays without generating any electrical hum through the system.
     
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  16. stay crunchy

    stay crunchy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Austin-area, Texas
    I've got some pretty good advice from a record shop that also sells vintage equipment. I'm hoping to get some tips and tricks from people here about what to look for mechanically.
     
    Cowboy Kim likes this.
  17. stay crunchy

    stay crunchy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Austin-area, Texas
    Gretsch, my new best friend! That is exactly the kind of stuff I needed to know!!! Your advice is EXTREMELY helpful.

    Any advice for used direct drive tables? Since there's no belt, what should I be looking for under the platter?

    Thank you so much!
     
  18. Gretsch6136

    Gretsch6136 Forum Resident

    No worries mate!

    With a Direct drive you can spin them up with the power off by hand. Again look for silent running and a long, smooth slow down to a stop. They will generally slow down quicker than a belt drive model though.

    You will also want to check its speed accuracy and if the motor is still healthy by checking its torque. Get a record playing and verify its holding correct speed with your stroboscope. Then momentarily slow the platter down with your finger against its side. Remove your finger and see how quickly and accurately it returns to and maintains correct speed. A healthy motor with good torque will push against your finger's pressure harder than you may think, and when you let it go should achieve correct speed in about a second. A sluggish return to speed coupled to speed instability is a turntable you don't want.

    Another thing to look for that separates great turntables from the rest is plinth resonance (both DD and belt). Basically play a record through the stereo and tap your finger on the plinth and casework. The harder you have to tap to hear a corresponding thump through the speakers, the better the TT is at rejecting acoustic feedback (howling at high volumes), rejecting structure borne noise like footfalls, and generally playing your records with a lower noise floor. Some cheap turntable ring like a bell! Keep walking if they do this.

    Cheers,

    Mark
     
  19. stay crunchy

    stay crunchy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Austin-area, Texas
    Thanks Gretsch, Rolltide and everyone else that chimed in and helped out. I was able to pick up a pretty nice Pioneer PL550. Cosmetically, the vinyl "wood" wrap on the plinth is peeling, but everything else is pristine. The tone arm and other aluminum knobs, etc., are beautiful and unscratched. The dust cover was a little cloudy, but has no cracks and very few minor scratches. Once I cleaned it up, everything looked fantastic. The tonearm is solid and swings freely...no grinding or sloppiness in its play. All knobs and buttons are static free and move smoothly. The spindle's lateral movement is rock solid and the Quartz lock function seems to be on point. The platter spins freely and takes quite awhile to come to a complete stop. The rubber mat is in great shape, very flexible, and the platter is heavy and unwarped. The damping of the tonearm lift moves nice and slowly both up and down.

    Besides the imperfections of the plinth, the cartridge needle is a little bent and needs to replaced. It's still plays reasonably well on a cheap record, but I will be upgrading to a better cartridge. I do plan on giving it a lube job soon, but have not opened it up yet. Everything works and functions properly so far. The feet, however, seem a little cheap, but they are not falling off at this point. If you folks could have seen the mosquito infested shack that the guy had it set up in, you might have passed...I was having second thoughts, too. The poor guy didn't even have a phono stage on his receiver to test it properly, nor did he know he needed one. He was kind enough to throw in two extra head shells though.

    Anyway, I just wanted to share my find and thank everyone for their time and advice. I have it connected to a near mint and fully restored Marantz 2270 that I also recently picked up (the thing sounds so syrupy sweet!!!!!). The search now begins for some vintage speakers to complete my old school set up. Thanks again!
     
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  20. Gretsch6136

    Gretsch6136 Forum Resident

    Congratulations Crunchy!

    Don't play any records until you get a new cartridge or stylus at least. A bent cantilever will destroy your records.

    If you need any set-up tips you know where to find me!

    I have the owners manual and service manual in PDF form if you want them. Send me a PM.

    Cheers,

    Mark
     
    stay crunchy likes this.
  21. stay crunchy

    stay crunchy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Austin-area, Texas
    Thank you, Mark! You're help was instrumental in me picking up the Pioneer. I hope it is beneficial to others, too.

    The only record I played was just a cheap old classical lp to test my set up job. I think I did ok. As soon as I get a new cartridge, I'm sure I'll need some help. I'm planning on changing out the headshell wires as well.

    And I would love to get the manuals since the didn't come with the turntable.

    Thanks again!
     
  22. bluesky

    bluesky Senior Member

    Location:
    south florida, usa
    Carefully.
     
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