If SMiLE had been completed in 1967, who thinks it would have blown Sgt. Pepper out of the water?

In Beautiful Dreamer Brian says that it would have taken him a year to finish Smile from the time it was shelved. That's quite a bit of time for someone who's fairly prolific in the studio and not touring. I can't imagine what a year of studio time for Brian would pan out to be regarding Smile, but from that revealing statement I have to venture to guess that the 'completed' Smile was going to be even bigger sounding and more complex than what we heard on Brian Wilson Presents Smile (which I believe is a simplified version, even given its relative complexity).

I really don't think we've heard the real Smile that would have been produced in 1967, nor will we ever. The kind of creative decisions he was making on the fly in the studio back in 1967 in svengali/auteur composer mode were grandly unpredictable and exploratory. If that is the case (the year it would take estimate), then maybe it's understandable that Brian shelved it since he didn't want to spend anymore time on it, things as they were. It still doesn't quite gibe with its original release date of January, 1967, except that perhaps Brian only figured out he'd need a year longer after the time he originally allotted for it ran out.

Plus, the fragmentary way he was recording Smile was not conducive to composing in his fragile state of mind. It was almost the opposite of the way he recorded Pet Sounds, wherein he had recorded complete songs (sans vocals) most of the time that didn't need to be indeterminately (and somewhat randomly) pieced together with infinite mind-boggling variables like much of the Smile material required. He lost it because this style of recording, which had worked miraculously well in producing the 'Good Vibrations' single, was like juggling more pieces than he could carry while climbing a mountain with no clear path. It was a bigger task than one guy could manage, in the end. It was more ambitious than we can even know.

At any rate, Brian could have told Mike, 'Look, let's just finish this album, and you and the guys can co-write the next album and even play all the parts!' But instead he compromised with Smiley Smile to keep the peace and keep the family/band more involved. He went from making an epic soundtrack to making a home movie.

 

Yeah, I shoulda read your post more clearly.

Brian might well have been keeping the peace with Smiley Smile, but it was even weirder than SMILE, and no one in the band objected.

 

Of course I forgot Day in the Life, but hell Paul conducted the band (sort of, but probably not really-more like the kid wearing his dad's fire hat).

 

Smile had some really creative ideas but it is no Sgt. Peppers. Sgt. Peppers was just such a cultural phenomenon. In certain cycles today, people with the benefit of nearly 50 years on want to argue that Sgt. Peppers hasn't stood up to the test of times or that it isn't even the best Beatles album. Smile though, is really in all honesty, a cult classic and it is really fun to speculate what might have been but come on! Sgt. Peppers deserved the hype all of these years and Smile is a cult classic. There lies the difference.

 

I think the responses are correct. SMiLE likely would have been a critical triumph, but not the cultural touchstone of Pepper. The big problem is the hit song off of it being released months earlier.

I do strongly disagree with comments that say SMiLE does not compare artistically to Pepper. I think the songwriting is the equal of Pet Sounds (if not superior), and also the equal of Pepper.

Let's compare tracks. I will use the 12 track list for SMiLE.

1. Sgt. Pepper's vs. Heroes & Villains - The album concept songs. Whether it be the Cantina version or single version, H & V wins easily here - Advantage SMiLE
2. With A Little Help From My Friends vs. Do You Like Worms - Ringo takes his greatest turn. Sadly, we will never know who would have sang lead on Worms (I vote Al, please record him singing the lead before he loses his voice!). I love Worms, but even imagining it finished, the edge goes to Ringo with a little help from his friends - Advantage Pepper
3. Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds vs. Good Vibrations - The Beach Boys get to use their greatest single, while the Beatles left their's off. Lucy got a ton of radio play, but GV may be the greatest pop song ever - Advantage SMiLE
4. Getting Better vs. Cabin Essence - Pepper starts with one of the greatest 4 song runs. Getting Better is a great song. And so is the modular Cabin Essence. It's tag is one of my favorite pieces of music - Draw
5. Fixing a Hole vs. Child Is Father Of The Man - Fixing a Hole is my least favorite Pepper song, but Child is one of the most incomplete Smile songs, so it is hard to even compare them - Advantage Pepper
6. She's Leaving Home vs. Wonderful - A very similar theme to these beautiful ballads. I prefer the gorgeous Wonderful, but they are equals - draw
7. Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite vs. The Elements: Fire - Many do not like Kite, but I love it. Lennon and George Martin take us on a wild ride at the circus/carnival with swirling sounds. Brian only finished this part of the elements (that we are sure of), but it sounds like the Big Top caught fire - Draw
8. Within You Without You vs. My Only Sunshine - George and Dennis make their sole contributions, and both are solid - Draw
9. When I'm 64 vs. Vega-Tables - George Martin would take this one off Pepper, but I enjoy this "granny" music a lot. It is pretty light, as is Vega-Tables. I love the version on the SMiLE Sessions - Draw
10. Lovely Rita vs. Wind Chimes - The Beach Boys had one more ballad than the Beatles, so it matches up with Lovely Rita. In this case Wind Chimes is too beautiful to be denied, and gets heavy at the end. I like the "tinkling winds" at the start of this one - Advantage SMiLE
11. Good Morning, Good Morning vs. I'm In Great Shape/Barnyard - One ends in the barnyard, the other ends with animal noises including a rooster. Brian's was never realized, and it is unknown how it would have ended up. Lennon's is plenty strong - Advantage Pepper
12. Sgt. Pepper's (Reprise) vs. Our Prayer - Prayer was to be an unlisted intro, while the Reprise completed the concept of Pepper. Both of these short tracks are awesome - Draw
13. A Day In The Life vs. Surf's Up - Two of the greatest pop songs ever written and recorded. Few albums would have a song to match up with A Day In The Life, but SMiLE does - Draw

That is a score of 3-3 with 7 ties (By my very subjective ratings and matchups). Pepper suffers from the omission of SFF/Penny Lane. SMiLE suffers from being incomplete. Pepper's cover is better. I prefer SMiLE due to the overall feel and sheer ambition. It was so complex, that even the genius of Brian Wilson could not complete it.

 

As to your last paragraph, Brian didn't compromise with Smiley Smile. For all intents and purposes, Smile was dead by April 1967. The first Smiley Smile session occurs on June 3rd. Considering that Smile was probably 90% complete, I doubt that the guys really wanted to start from scratch on a new album. I think it was more that they had no other choice but record a new album. Also, with Sgt. Pepper's being released on June 1st, I'm thinking Brian thought he was beaten to the punch, and Smile was shelved.

Also, production-wise you are hearing the real Smile. What you are not hearing is the final 1967 track sequence. Musically, most everything was recorded. What's missing is mostly all vocals.

As for the band, they knew that Smile was a risk. It was so different than anything that they had done previously, even Pet Sounds. By the time it was shelved, they must have bought in. You don't go back in the studio after Smile then record something even freakier. They even re-recorded the Van Dyke Parks co-writes. By June 1967, they bought in, alright. Smiley Smile was a much more risky album to release than Smile.

 

Then why not just finish Smile if the Beach Boys had bought in and Brian only needed them to complete the vocals? And that process would take a year (according to Brian in Beautiful Dreamer - a year to complete Smile at time of shelving) if it was nearly complete? They were a well-oiled harmony vocal group by then. Doesn't quite make sense. In Beautiful Dreamer he maintained that he wasn't getting the support he needed from the band when he shelved it.

I'm not sure that Brian knew the exact format the album was going to take in its final c. 1967 form. If he did, it would likely have been easier to complete if it was, as you say, 90% there. 90% done? with a year left of recording? That seems more like 50% done.

Smiley Smile sounds like home demos in comparison to some of the more finished Smile pieces, to me. Doesn't seem to be much risk involved in releasing something like Smiley Smile, given that it is in legible English, while Smile is in other vocalese languages in many parts. I still think Brian threw in the beach towel and decided to co-produce something with the rest of the band, using a lot of the spirit of Smile and some of the songs, just brought down to the level that the rest of the band could feel like they had a stake in. That sounds like a compromise, to me, just like the 'Smiley Smile' title itself.

 

Both. First at the time of release, and then now.

 

Let me ask you, have you heard the Smile Sessions? Brian knew the major pieces would include Good Vibrations, Our Prayer, Heroes & Villains, Surf's Up, Cabinessence, Wonderful, Child Is Father To The Man, Vega-Tables, Wind Chimes, Fire. That is 10 of the possible 13 or so tracks that would have comprised the 1967 Smile. Do You Like Worms still needed vocals. I'm In Great Shape/Barnyard/Sunshine and maybe Love To Say Da Da are the only tracks that needed more work. The Foundation tracks were finished or just about finished. I don't think that was the entire issue why it wasn't released. As drbryant as stated, Brian missed his window of opportunity for release. Spending so much time on Heroes... and on Vega-Tables (the singles) slowed the album's momentum. Also, I wouldn't trust Beautiful Dreamer. David Leaf had an agenda. Always has concerning Smile. You're given his slant on Smile on Beautiful Dreamer, of which he has been spouting since the late 1970's.

 

Smile was dead in December. After that,the search for a single began.

 

I disagree that the tracks were "finished". I think they are too bare boned.

If you compare Pet Sounds and the density of instrumentation to SMilE, its obvious that SMiLE sounds sparce even in many of the major pieces. I cant imagine that at the height of the psych era( or at least during it) that SMiLE would have been less complex and dense in instrumentation than its predecessor. And thats not even accounting for additional harmony and vocals.

Another reason I think 1) SMiLE was not as close to being finished as many think 2) that we can fairly compare it against Peppers.

 

Not sure why you would think that way. Smile was not Pet Sounds. I think that except for possible overdubs, the main tracks were finished. For the most part, Brian recorded with all of the musicians that were going to be used for a track. They were all in the studio at one time. I do agree with you that there really is no sense in comparing Pepper & Smile. A whole bunch of woulda, coulda, shoulda, imho.

 

Doh, that should be "cant" fairly compare it against Peppers.

 

Indeed! From January through April, all that was worked on by Brian was Heroes and Villains & Vega-Tables.

 

I think a lot of the "facts" about SMiLE are obscured by time and recollection mainly. I mean listen to GV at its inception then as a finished product. Completely different song nearly. I think if all was lined up emotionally, timewise and maybe a few less drugs, Brian would have added and reworked things considerably.

Why do I think in density that SMiLE would have been like Pet Sounds? Because of the progression of Brians development. He certainly wasnt going more sparse( though he might have pioneered that also before Dylan had the chance if things had went better for Brian). I just think there was some reworking still to be done. Heroes is pretty dense. So is Cabinessence and even Surfs Up. By dense, I mean full in harmony and instrumentation. But much of it is not.

Is some of what I state speculative? Sure. But few things arent concerning SMiLE.

My feeling about this also comes from the angle of a musician/composer. No, Im no Brian Wilson, but Ive been trained and have experience doing a few things in this area.

 

Just listening to the sessions, I have assumed, falsely maybe, that much of the denseness of which you speak would have been done with vocals, vocals as instrument voicings. They recorded a lot of those types of vocalizations for Smile.

 

*First SMiLE sessions listen done (Just the imagined 19 track album). Very impressed, this is far reaching stuff, but I think this would have flown right over the heads of many people in 1967. I can't envisage such a modular approach being as popular as Sgt Pepper.

It is of course an unfinished what if, so that should be kept in mind. As is, I think there might perhaps be too much humour and intentional out there-ness in it for it to have been taken in by general public to the same degree as Pepper was. Pepper was more concise, thus more easily digested?

At this point, I don't think the other album tracks on the imagined SMiLE match the magic and mystery of Good Vibrations. I think Brian was trying maybe TOO hard with SMiLE.

 

I have to agree with your assessment. Smile has some very beautiful music, but there really is nothing catchy like Fixing A Hole or It's Getting Better. Being a Beach Boys fan (and biased, of course), on the whole, I do prefer Smile over Pepper when listening to them as whole albums. Pepper songs works better as stand alone tracks than do Smile tracks.

 

The main problem for the (what if) SMiLE imo is that it goes way beyond, even by 1967 standards, the boundaries of a pop/rock record for the masses.

This is no problem for listeners who are not worried about such limitations.

I can hear much influence on Super Furry Animals, love that band.

 

To get an idea of two approx. 20 minute halves, you can try:

Prayer/Heroes... Part 1/Vega-Tables/Do You Like Worms/Great Shape-Barnyard-OMP-Sunshine/Cabinessence 19:02
Good Vibrations/Wonderful/Child.../Wind Chimes/Fire/Da-Da/Surf's Up 21:15

Of course you can play around with the sequencing, but this one works pretty well.

Edit: I use Heroes & Villains Part I, CD2 of the 2CD Deluxe Edition instead of the track 3 on CD1

 

Will give that a try. Wilson gave his blessing to this sessions release?

 

I don't think the Beatles went as nearly far out with all of the segments as Brian Wilson did. I know on the one box set, there are just minutes of harmonizing and these various vocal riffs. Brian Wilson must have spent a lot of time compiling all of that, and it was too much.

Probably the problem was that he had no counterpoint. He had the various lyricists, but he changed those up regularly at his whim, so there was no pushback there. So there was nothing stopping him from going further out and he just lost the thread. Lennon and McCartney would have their song fragments, but there was more of a complete song or pushback from another person. A lot of competition between the two of them, obviously. Or Richards and Jagger, Richards would come up with his riffs, but they had to fold into a song. Wilson didn't have a collaborator on his level, and he just got too far out. I don't think it was a drugs thing, it was a mental thing.

Didn't help that he'd stopped touring either. Made for more of a disconnect between him and the rest of the band.

 

I have the Smile sessions box. Do I need to get the stand-alone 2-CD also, or is everything on the 2-CD also included in the box?

 

The Beach Boys settled their lawsuit with Capitol, which needed product, and quick, with no new album for over a year, and that was a best-of.
Smile was a mess, and the group was in no shape to finish it. They needed an album to capitalize (get it?) on the sensation that was Good Vibrations before it had become an oldie.
They dashed off Smiley Smile, quickly recorded and released.
Kind of like Party, but with the Smile highlights, low-tech.

 

Smile,if it included Good Vibrations was well over $90,000 in recording costs by December 1966. The Beach Boys paid studios, and then billed Capitol. In today's dollars, that would be an extremely expensive LP. The Beach Boys were no doubt aware of this expense, and the strain it was causing the family business. No one ever mentions it but the sheer costs accumulated during Smile were no doubt a concern to the group and their families. That would include Murry as their publisher as well.