Thoughts on the Megadeth: 2002 KIMB Remaster?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Dynamic Ranger, Jan 2, 2013.

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  1. Dynamic Ranger

    Dynamic Ranger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Old Town, Maine
    Just a little thread on this particular Megadeth album. Their 1st album: Killing Is My Business... And Business Is Good! 2002 Re-Issue on the LOUD Records label.
    This is different from my last Megadeth thread where the subject was about all of the remixes and remasters, While this thread will be focusing on just this release.

    My thoughts: I think it sounds pretty darn good. I don't like some of the compression, But other than that it's pretty crankable and awesome. :) I don't have the original version to compare it with though. Only heard the original version once. Just once, And that was a very long time ago. I remember the sound quality was quite muffled and sounded as if it was being played in another room. Actually if you listen to some of the demos on the 2002 LOUD re-issue, You hear almost exactly what I described, Especially on track 11: Skull Beneath The Skin (Demo) Of course, the sound wasn't THAT bad on the original, At least i don't recall it sounding that murky/buried.
    I think the demos are pretty cool to listen to though!

    So anyways, What do you think of the 2002 re-issue of this classic thrash metal album? Do you think it beats the sound of the original combat release? Or is the original somewhat better to you?
    You can express what you think in the comments.
    Thanks for viewing!:targettiphat:
     
  2. DDTM

    DDTM Well-Known Member

    There's no getting around it - the guitar sound on the original album is criminally thin and powerless. In that respect, I can see why Mustaine did this remaster and it is very far from the stupidity and arrogance of what he did with the 2004 remasters/remixes.

    But...

    1) He allowed the censoring of "These Boots" (I guess he had no choice), thus destroying the song, and placed it at the end of the album, thus destroying the flow of the album. The point is, "These Boots" should close the first half, and "Mechanix" must close the album. So, this is unacceptable.

    2) It kind of sounds like Countdown to Extinction, doesn't it? That's a problem, I prefer the 1985 album to sound like it was recorded in 1985. Being a big fan of the band (1984-1995), I am well aware of what they were in mid-80s, and what they were 10 or 20 years later, and the sound of the KIMB remaster is incongruous with the songs, which bothers me to no end. This is why I'd rather struggle against the weak production of the original every time I play the album, than dealing with the slicked-up, jacked-up sound of the remaster.

    So, to repeat my point from that other thread, the 1985 KIMB is the actual thing. The remaster is merely a modern reinterpretation, interesting, but ultimately marginal for the serious fans. The original is still the one to get to experience the album as it is, warts and all. Oh, and be sure to avoid the CD which completely omits "These Boots".

    The best thing about the remaster is that it includes those three demo songs, which sound much more powerful than the 1985 album. But there were other means of obtaining those... :shh:
     
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  3. Dynamic Ranger

    Dynamic Ranger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Old Town, Maine
    Totally agree with everything you just said.

    1. Yes and that stinks. I think it was because Lee Hazlewood thought it was offensive therefore causing Dave to censor the lyrics that he had altered. :shake: Shame because that's a damn good cover. The beeps get in the way of all the other instruments, Not just the vocals.

    2. It does sound very much like Countdown in places, Especially the drums! :wtf: It sounds like a modern release. (Which is what Dave was going for when the album was re-issued) I recall on the original Combat version the drums sounded like 80's drums, Same goes for Peace Sells and SFSGSW. That's exactly what my ears like hearing, ORIGINAL drums. Not the digital clipped ones.

    I wish i could find an original copy of this album, It freaking rocks my socks! KIMB has actually became one of my favorite albums of theirs, I am sure that owning the original version would boost my appreciation for the album even more. The remaster sounds darn good on my stereo, The guitars/bass is rocking the whole time but like you said it has that 2004 CTE digital sound on the drums and vocals, Etc. Which is a real turn off, And kind of ruins it's overall impact on the listener.
    This album is a real cranker! But if it weren't for 'These Boots' being censored, And the awkward sounding drums, This album might have even topped Peace or Rust.
    Still love it though! :)

    Also: The track called *Rattlehead* is a real headbanger! Do crank this one! :evil:

    Once again, Thanks for your input! :wave:
     
  4. Dynamic Ranger

    Dynamic Ranger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Old Town, Maine
    Ah, Forgot to mention this.
    From what i hear the first Combat CD pressing (from 1986/1987 or so)? is the one that includes the original un-edited 'These Boots'
    Then in 1995 (due to Lee Hazlewood getting all offensive) the song was removed from all the future issues of the album until the 2002 remaster.
    Is this correct? :)
     
  5. kingofstoneage

    kingofstoneage Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Yes!
    For the uncensored version of "These Boots" i have my 2x45pm Music for Nations Vinyl,
     
  6. Dynamic Ranger

    Dynamic Ranger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Old Town, Maine
    Awesome! :)
     
  7. DDTM

    DDTM Well-Known Member

    The first CD release without "These Boots" listed on Discogs is from 1990: http://www.discogs.com/Megadeth-Killing-Is-My-Business-And-Business-Is-Good/release/460286

    You're more than welcome, it's nice to find other metalheads on a forum which is not too friendly towards metal in general.

    KIMB is a very good album, and its weird production might be the biggest reason why it's sometimes overlooked. I still prefer Peace Sells, however, which is my favourite thrash metal album by any band. (Hey, nice avatar.:righton:) It seems to me that they worked much harder on arranging and recording that album. There are some rough patches, songwriting-wise, on KIMB. Oh, but "Rattlehead" is certainly not one of them. It's a headbanger, a buttshaker, and a ballbuster all in one. :agree: Along with "Skull Beneath the Skin", "Looking Down the Cross" and "Mechanix", it is the core of the album.
     
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  8. neonknight5150

    neonknight5150 Member

    Location:
    USA
    I'm not so sure about the 2002 remix being "crankable". With an average headroom of DR6, it is constantly loud and has a very boxed in sound, the result of heavy hard limiting and some compression.

    The 1985 mix and mastering offers far greater dynamic range, sounds more open and is certainly crankable, however one must deal with the tiny sounding and rough original analog board mix. Hearing the loose drum kit mix and puny rhythm guitar tracks, I can see why Mustaine wanted to remix KIMB and Peace Sells But Who's Buying.

    I feel the 2002 remix would have been great if Tom Baker hadn't destroyed it during mastering. What was the point of remixing the album for an improved sound if they were going to ruin the newly uncovered and improved details in mastering? Counterproductive much?

    It's an interesting trade off isn't it? The 2002 remix is clearer, more even sounding and in general better engineered, but has crap dynamics.
    The 85' mix is open and dynamic but sounds thin and tiny.

    I suppose if one really wants an improved mix and isn't bothered much by weak sonic headroom, then they could love the 2002 version.
    I am all about dynamics, so I'll stick with the 1985 mix and mastering.
     
  9. DDTM

    DDTM Well-Known Member

    I think they just wanted it to sound louder, "punchier". My guess is the dynamics didn't figure in it.
     
  10. Dynamic Ranger

    Dynamic Ranger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Old Town, Maine
    Hey thanks again! :) I am glad to meet and chat with friendly metalheads such as yourself. It's actually an honor to do so!:tiphat:
    And I agree, KIMB goes up there with Rust, And Countdown maybe too. Peace Sells is also my all time favorite Megadeth album, I think they were at their peak on that one. (Glad you like the avatar)! "Rattlehead" is quite an underrated gem IMO. Everything about that song is just perfect and thrashy, Just the way i like it! ;) "Mechanix" and :Skull Beneath The Skin" are also great headbangers!
     
  11. Dynamic Ranger

    Dynamic Ranger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Old Town, Maine
    Hmmm, True. I guess it's a vice versa situation for this album. Either way i love it! It's a thrash metal gem. :righton:
    I do notice that overly loud boxed in sound on just about every part of the re-issue, Especially when i turn it up. There is clipping in places too.
    I haven't had the chance to hear the original KIMB in a very long time. However I do own the original Peace Sells CD, And it sounds wonderful! I don't see any reason as to why Peace Sells was remixed. Remastered maybe, But not remixed. It sounded perfect the way it was. I am sure if i got the chance to own/listen to the original KIMB I would say the same for that album.
    And DR6 eh? Ouch. :yikes:
     
  12. Dynamic Ranger

    Dynamic Ranger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Old Town, Maine
    Yeah this is what Mustaine had stated. I remember reading that he wanted to give the album the menacing, punchy, and pretty much "Loud" sound that he wanted from the start. Mustaine was apparently happy with the end result, Not everyone was as satisfied as he was with the updated boost in sound quality though. I am sure if i heard the original i would treasure it like my original Peace Sells disc which is A+ Perfect! :righton:
    Really wish i could get my hands on an original CD copy of this sometime, My music store sells used CDs all the time, Well maybe someday... ;)
    Regardless of sound, I will always love this album! :agree: It is truly incredible to me.
     
  13. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    I like the sound on it pretty much..could have been better I guess. The bonus stuff is great but some of the bad stuff has been already commented on.

    This and all of their other albums do not come close IMO to So Far So Good So What which I feel is one of or maybe the greatest thrash metal album ever recorded. It is one of my favorite top ten albums of all time.
     
  14. DDTM

    DDTM Well-Known Member

    I'm glad to hear this, as the album is often overlooked. I prefer Peace Sells, but there are days when I'll put SFSGW ahead of Rust in Peace without a second thought. I like the sheer rush of that album, plus the darker, more epic elements of "Mary Jane" and "In My Darkest Hour", which is something Megadeth rarely touched upon, although there are songs where it can be heard, like "Looking Down the Cross" or "Diadems", or some moments from Youthanasia.
     
  15. DDTM

    DDTM Well-Known Member

    Thank you very much for those kind words. :righton:
     
  16. Dynamic Ranger

    Dynamic Ranger Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Old Town, Maine
    You are very welcome. :)
     
  17. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    I am glad you like it too. Sheer rush is a great description. It is a sonic onslaught from start to finish. I don't think DM's rhythm playing was ever better.

    I play guitar and have tried to play most of the stuff on this album and it always blows me away to play along with it. You would figure at 57 years old and playing for 30 years I could nail it but this album is just killer.

    Hey..I am heading to Bar Harbor tomorrow. First time in Maine during the winter for me. Maybe I will run into the OP there.
     
  18. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 "They're like soup, they're like....nothing bad"

    Agreed. I have the remasters and prefer the originals. Especially peace sells...I've got the original combat cd pressing and it's great. I have an opportunity to buy KIMB on vinyl on the Canadian banzai label. Would that be an original pressing/mix?
     
  19. DDTM

    DDTM Well-Known Member

  20. Trillmeister

    Trillmeister Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Al,

    As I think I may have mentioned, when the whole 'Thrash thing' exploded, I was profoundly antagonistic.

    However, following fairly constant exposure by one of our sect's number, I eventually succumbed during the opening moments of 'Hit The Lights.'

    'Killing' was a slab of vinyl which duly taped, always entertained and often thrilled in the right kind of environment but was never a kind of holy relic for which some mastered reappraisal would find teeth gnashing in disgust.

    Moreover, the sound on this CD which has replaced the aforementioned and very longstanding reel of chrome dioxide tape is a conveyor of profound, orchestral-MOSH, percussive dimensions.

    A bit like Blaze Bayley's debut with 'Maiden on The X Factor, there's just something beautifully resolved about the sound of the vocal/instrument resolution which presses my buttons, making me come over all Saxon (as in Angles, rather than Byffodic.) :uhhuh:
     
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  21. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    i think the 2002 version sounds better.i can hear a lot of kick drum stuff i can't hear on the original version because its so muddy
     
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