Tape brand for vintage sound

Hello, I am going into tape recording. I necer used it before although my band(a 60s rnb garage style recreating early stones/kinks/pretty things sound and instruments)recordings habe been made on a truly 50s/60s studio on best quality full analog machines and the results are amazing, the sound is real 60s.
But now I am trying to begin to do it by myself, from a very humble starting point.
So I got a silly Tascam 34B and I would like to ask you about what is a good tape for this sound. I know it is not a good machine and it is not just a matter of having the "perfect" tape(there are plenty of facotrs like mics, pre's, room, and so on...) but I would like at least to clear myself about what tape I should get. I think any one could be useful but I would like to solve all the sides of the puzzle so that is why I now ask you just about the tape.
I read about scotch 111 may be the most 50s/60s sounding tape in the style of early bestles and similar stuff, would you be so kind to advice me about it?
And if it is possible I would thank if you tell me about tapes which are (even NOS) available today, not just the brands which are alive in 2015(are they far away to get the old sound?)
Thanks in advance and saludos

 

RMG tape should give you the sound you want. The 911 is just great, best for your music would perhaps be 468 (formerly Agfa) if you can find it.

The Pretty Things just recorded their latest album on RMG 911 I believe.

 

Thanks a lot!

It is very useful info, here in Europe we have a online big store selling them.
Would you advice about the difference between these items?

https://m.thomann.de/intl/rmg_sm911...S.EUR:EUR&o=12&ref=mrl_a_12&search=1438074359

https://m.thomann.de/intl/rmg_sm911...:ES.EUR:EUR&o=3&ref=mrl_a_3&search=1438074354

I have 7" machine without NAB adaptors so I think Ihave to use them. Or it is better buyin a NAB adaptor and Big holes reels?

Thanks again

 

No difference in the sound, the dearer one is a 10.5" reel.
I was under the impression that your Tascam takes 10.5" reels - that's what I would go for, you can of course use a 7" reel on it if you want.

Shak

 

Thanks again.
The adaptors to 10,5" are missing, it has just the 7 ones.
Anyway I could get them, but do you think it is so important?

 

To get that sound, you really need period equipment. A Tascam won't sound like a 1960's Ampex, Studer, or Scully.

 

Of course!! I begin the post telling exactly that, this is just I can only access to this Tascam for now and I have to practice with it, it is the only machine I have but it will help me to learn to work with tape medium basics. In a future I will get a serious machine and serious gear and I will be able to use it in a better way that now in my ignorance...

That is why I was asking about just one thing, the tape itself which can be closer to that old sound. Not expecting it brings me a real vintage sound on the tascam but to know step by step every side of proccess

And the posts have been useful, yes.
Thanks

 

That tascam is seriously great for multitracking. You'll be really surprised what you can do with it. Of course the other gear in the chain will have a bigger influence over the sound but you can't go wrong with Scotch 111. It definitely imparts a sound of it's own, its easy to find and it holds up well. The downside of a machine like the 34 is how difficult it is to adjust bias on the fly, you have to get access to the board so it's rather difficult to get the best out of every tape you use on it. You may be better off biasing to what's most easily available to you and sticking only with using that. That said, vintage tape is cheap, it wouldn't hurt to experiment and see how different tapes reproduce different sounds at different levels on your particular machine.

 

Thanks for answer.
I still don't know about biasing, I got the manual and it says something about it, but when I get a tape I will be able to try it or figure how it works.

So you think a scotch 111 would sound more "old sound" than rmg911 even in a simple scenario like mine? I have no tape and I need to buy one so it doesnt matter to buy one or another because I am not trying to be abbey road at home, hehe... I am in a phase of learning not getting perfect recordings, but I do prefer to get one tape closer to my goals and this way I can learn to listen its sound so in the future I can use it in a better way

 

111 definitely has a bit of a "vintage" sound, especially if you really push it to it's limits. But I don't want to overstate it. It's very subtle. The best way you'll understand is really by trying it out for yourself luckily 111 is very ubiquitous, even NOS tends to not go for a lot of money.

Later tapes, like 456, they have a character of their own too although you have to be really careful/lucky. The odds are too great that you'll end up with a tape with sticky shed syndrome.


If you want a newly manufactured tape, ATR magnetics is the best stuff around, but it's clean. If you want your recordings to sound perfect and uncolored, bias your machine to that. Most people working with tape want a certain "sound" though, not clinical accuracy.

 

Eight track.

 

But only if it is 1", lesser won't get it.

 

Thanks again, I will go for 111 and try it.
About biasing for that tape, any advice?

 

Thanks
I just have this 4 tracks machine by now and for learning tape working.
In the future I think I will have to go at least 8 tracks,. I would prefer limit myself to 4, in the digital scenario I have now I like to do it this way for my own stuff, but if I record in future other bands I will have to offer "modern" facilities. I wish people would like to do it in an old esy but the bands don't use to like it and prefer to use a lot of tracks (although I will try to limit it to 8)

 

Tape won't get you that sound, but a tube buffer will. The real issue with the Tascam gear is that it has the opposite sound of what you seek. You would get closer to that 50's sound with a 24 bit digital recorder and an Ampex MX 10 in the signal chain. The inherent sound of those Tascam reel to reel decks is hard and transistor-y.

 

It just happens to be difficult on your particular machine because you have to get access to the board, there's no way to adjust bias from outside the machine like on more professional recorders. If you bias to 111 you'll get best results on 111, and everything else will be a compromise. It will be best to bias to what you'll be using the most.

For vintage sound, don't be afraid to record hot and use tube pre-amps for your mics if you can. 111 will saturate very easily.

You can also experiment with recording at different speeds - the tape reacts to input differently and hf roll off gets much worse at 7 1/2 ips but the "effect" you are after may be more pronounced.

 

Hey, that's pretty close to my preferred mixing method. (Mixing 24 track digital to R2R, that is)

There was a very good column in Tape Op recently that echoes my thoughts about the OP's question:

It’s the Process, not the Processing
BY LARRY CRANE
For the last six months I've worked on an album that's very much steeped in the style of the classic mid-century crooners. Artists like Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Johnny Mathis, and Julie London cut some classic "American songbook" sides back in the '50s and '60s; the record I was working on was inspired, and informed, by this era. As we began setting up for the first day of recording, it was obvious that the premise was to make the album "feel" like one of those older tunes, but not to try and imitate the "sound" of an old record. In other words, there was no edict to upgrade or modernize the sound of the band or vocalist, but there was also no order to imitate the older records. The conversations around this decision were interesting, and it was refreshing to feel free to let the music, arrangements, and performances create the sound of the album. There was a fair amount of bleed between the grand piano and drums (mostly played with brushes), and a room tone emerged that felt right to everyone involved. Sure, I used some older (and older style) mics, gear, and tape decks; but if it didn't bring out the best in an instrument I swapped it out. In the end, if this record had been created with pristine, isolated, brightly EQ'd and overly compressed (i.e., "modern") tracks, there's no chance that it would feel as deep and natural as what we created. Capturing the feel and mood was something that had to happen from the start.

I've had people call me, asking to rent "vintage sounding mics" so that their recordings could have some sort of classic tone. In one case, classic early singles by The Who came up and I had to say, "That's a wild drummer, in a great sounding room, with probably one condenser mic hanging above him, playing on a fantastic song. There was likely a tube mic pre, compressor, and tape deck used. But I'll bet you anything the engineer was fighting the dynamic and sonic limitations of the tape deck." All of these elements inform the sound of tracks like this. Borrowing one mic isn't going to magically bring any track to life in the way of one of these older songs.

Another time a musician emailed me, asking how to make his recorded tracks sound more like old reggae and ska when mixing. I couldn't even imagine how to begin. For reference I listened to some old Skatalites tracks. Sure, there wasn't the same kind of high-frequency information like a modern album, but to simply roll off high end would not yield the same results. These tracks were usually cut live, and once again the bleed in the room, and instruments laying down tracks together, creates the core of the band's sound. There's no magic reverb setting or compression ratio that will make a song feel like these old recordings!

Borrowing one mic isn’t going to magically bring any track to life in the way of one of these older songs.
I used to get a lot of bands coming to record with me that were afraid of the recording studio. "Don't make us sound like Def Leppard or Mötley Crüe," they'd say. I'd reply, "Do you know how hard it is to make a record like that? I can't just turn a knob and make something sound like those bands! It takes months of hard work to do that."

People focus a lot on the mixing process these days, and I understand and embrace that. Heck, it's partly how I make a living. But record production comes in many forms, and it's never as simple as some processing applied all over previously recorded tracks that creates great art.

If you want your recordings to have depth, complexity, and be able to withstand multiple listens, you need to focus on the whole process. Learn how classic records were really made, and make sure every decision leads towards the album you want to create.

http://www.tapeop.com

 

Ok, so I think I will use 111 for now.
I saw you can get it easy on ebay but I have a doubt, I have no empty neither full reel, just the naked machine with 7" reels and I don't know if NOS 111 tapes includes 7" reels or it is just tape. Something like this:



It says 7" on sleeve but it includes reel?

 

Yeah, that is 1200 feet of tape spooled onto one plastic reel. To my knowledge, short lengths of tape never came spooled as pancakes, and they don't come with a take-up. If you don't have an empty takeup handy, you'll need one. Get a nice metal one if you can - they're typically easy to work with, sturdy, and a nice way to add some bling factor to a machine the nicest 7" one I've used is a Teac one which is easy to thread even on the tape machines which require use of twisting clamps (Otari)


Also note, while its not the worst thing in the world, you typically don't want to mix reel sizes - you want to use a 7" take up with 7" reels, 10" takeup for 10" reels, etc. I typically don't mix reel sizes unless I happen to be spooling from one to another for storage or replacement of the reel.

 

Thanks again.
So I will get a tape and an empty reel and begin to learn to manage it, I hope I don't destroy it soon

 

Nah, you'll manage. Good luck, be sure to keep us posted

 

I will post my impressions when I got tape
Thanks a lot!

 

I have a Tascam TSR-8 and it has a sound that is superior to anything digital I have ever used. Be sure to get a decent mixing board to use with it. Tascam tape recorders, despite what people may tell you, are very nice machines, and will give you a very warm but also very snappy sound that you will find pleasing. Just don't go into it thinking that tape is an end-all solution to bad mixing practices.

As for tape, used Ampex 456 or new RMG 911 tape will both give you a vintage kind of sound that you're looking for. ATR tape, like MrRom92 said, is much cleaner and more clinical, but that might not be a bad thing.

I'm pretty sure RMG tape is still being manufactured.

 

YMMV, but I've had some bad luck with RMG. Dropouts, head clogs, shedding. More than once.

Perhaps it was a bad batch, but I've steered clear and switched to ATR Magnetics tape, which has been uniformly excellent.

 

Stay away from the 456. No way to know if it will sticky shed or not. I had cases of it that were all rotten.