Was Jimmy Page obsessed with Neil Young and Crazy Horse when he wrote Stairway?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve G, Jul 30, 2015.

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  1. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    los angeles
    I have never been much of a Zeppelin person but I heard that song on the radio this morning and it kind of jumped out at me the way the verses end with Down By The River and then the end of the song kind of goes into Cowgirl in the Sand, including even the guitar solo. Different keys but the same basic stuff.

    So I googled it and Everybody Knows came out in 69 and Stairway came out in 71. In the meantime, those two songs were the big Crazy Horse guitar numbers/showpieces.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    los angeles
    In fact, really only the Down By The River part is in a different key - the Cowgirl Part is the same key.
     
  3. jfire

    jfire Forum Resident

    Location:
    Missoula
    seems like he was more obsessed by "Taurus," by Spirit.

     
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  4. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    los angeles
    both LA bands playing around this town a lot then I'd imagine. can it be a coincidence? was he hanging out here?
     
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  5. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    los angeles
    p.s. it doesn't sound as much like the Spirit song as that last section sounds like Cowgirl. That really jumped out at me. (before the vocals come in I mean)
     
  6. wavethatflag

    wavethatflag God is love, but get it in writing.

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I'm currently listening to "Down By The River", and up next is Cowgirl and then Stairway, because you present a pressing issue that must be addressed by this forum. :D

    Edit: Findings (and I'm not a musician, so I know nothing from key changes or anything else)--

    1. At around the 2 minute mark in "Down By The River", Neil engages in some guitar noodling that does not sound unlike a Pagey solo. But, to be honest, I didn't hear anything that reminded me of Stairway.

    2. At around 3:00 to 3:18 in Cowgirl, the bass playing reminds me of JPJ. But, again, I'm not hearing a likeness to Stairway.

    In sum, I kind of doubt Page was influenced by Neil on Stairway, because I'm not hearing what you do. Stairway strikes me as tighter and more purposefully constructed than either River or Cowgirl, which are looser and ramshackle in the Neil Young vein. But listening to and comparing these three songs might be the best thing that happens to me all day. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
  7. Use_Your_Koala

    Use_Your_Koala Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris
    When I clicked the thread, I was sure there was going to be a oh-so-original wise remark about Taurus. Not disappointed :rolleyes:
     
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  8. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

    Location:
    Ottawa
    Darn click bait title, I just can't seem to help myself!
     
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  9. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    los angeles
    well first off, I'm glad you made the time to listen to some good music!

    to address your points in order:

    1. Down by the River pretty much goes em7-A the whole time - in Stairway the "ooh it makes me wonder" part goes am7-D which is the same thing in a different key - but when I hear those chords, especially in that era, I always think "oh, the Neil Young chords". This is before Dark Side Of The Moon came out, mind...

    2. Cowgirl pretty much goes am-F the whole time - the end of Stairway goes am-G(passing chord)-F the whole time and they both use very similar scales and riffing in the lead guitar parts - compare the long solos in Cowgirl to Page's solo before the "ease on down the road" part of Stairway

    -s
     
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  10. wavethatflag

    wavethatflag God is love, but get it in writing.

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Yeah, this is all Greek to me. You probably need input from another musician to resolve the similarity issue.
     
  11. Rne

    Rne weltschmerz

    Location:
    Malaver
    ç
    Those are not eccentric chords progressions, actually, so if that's the case (I don't know much about "Stairway" structure, but I got no reasons not to believe you), it's a mere coincidence. I love three songs, I've listened to them tons of times and, to be honest, I never found any similarity (or at least a relevant similarity).
     
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  12. Jack Flash

    Jack Flash Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    Did Led Zeppelin steal the beginning of Kashmir from Radiohead by using a time machine?
     
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  13. JoeF.

    JoeF. Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    I hear a similar guitar" tone" in certain spots, but not much else. The part in "Stairway" on which the final guitar solo rests always reminded me of the Hendrix version of "All Along the Watchtower."
    If Page could have found something from Young that he could have used, he would have, and it would be obvious....
     
  14. gregorya

    gregorya I approve of this message

    Yes...

    a few years later, Talking Heads used the same time machine to rip off Radiohead's name for a song title...
     
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  15. zen

    zen Senior Member

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    Were Benny & Björn obsessed with The Bee Gees when they wrote "Thank You For The Music"?

    Tune in next week...
     
  17. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    From everything I've read Plant loved all the west coast bands of the late 60s era - but mainly Love & Moby Grape (he's covered a bunch of MG stuff solo) while Jimmy was generally unimpressed by that psych/post-psych west coast sound.

    Stuff they were both listening to at the time were things like Joni Mitchell and Fairport Convention etc - folky things mainly.

    At some point in the 70s Jimmy said his favourite American group was Little Feat.
     
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  18. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    los angeles
  19. Jack Flash

    Jack Flash Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I love that. :D
     
  20. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    I agree. They are similar in that both solos are very horizontal as far as the harmonic rhythm goes. In other words, the solos do not strictly follow the way the chords are moving.
    Good ear on your part.
    I am not very familiar with the Cowgirl solo technically but it sounds pretty close to focusing on pentatonic as does the solo in Stairway.
    Edit- Neil's solo goes more into blues territory than JP's. You can really hear the blues touches at 7:08 as an example.

     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
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  21. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    Radiohead has a song that sounds like Kashmir? I need to listen to them more. :D
     
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  22. Dhreview16

    Dhreview16 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London UK
    LA was more or less Zep's second home, and they were certainly well aware of the Laurel Canyon scene, including CSN, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell (whose Ladies of the Canyon was apparently a favourite) and James Taylor.

    There are suggestions that Tangerine off Led Zep III was influenced by Young, and one of the tracks recorded in the sessions for IV that didn't make the final cut.

    Going to California off IV is said to have Joni in mind as the woman referred to in the lyrics.

    I'll leave the Taurus thing to others. Whatever, Stairway is a classic.
     
  23. Jack Flash

    Jack Flash Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    Tangerine was written about Jackie DeShannon ("What the World Needs Now is Love", "Put a Little Love in Your Heart"), Page's girlfriend at the time. Then it was dusted off later for the Zep III album.


    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Veltri

    Veltri ♪♫♫♪♪♫♫♪

    Location:
    Canada
    I don't think it would hold up in court or even in the court of public opinion, but he may have been referring to Planet Dixon, or something with an x.
     
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  25. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    Written in I believe early 1968 while Page was still in the Yardbirds. Supposedly co-written with Keith Relf (who is not credited on LZ III)

    .and .. here it is:



    PS - so inspired by "Neil Young"? Well since Neil Young had yet to release a solo record I'd have to say no. Inspired by Buffalo Springfield? - well I suppose that's possible, but I don't hear it
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
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