How many different studio versions of Ray Charles' "WHAT'D I SAY?" are there?

And as it turns out, the 'little Lp' stereo jukebox EP of WHAT'D I SAY came out in October 1964 amidst the first batch of Atlantic/Atco jukes through Seeburg. I have it up north, and it must have at least a few stereo tracks, which would therefore have been taken from Ray's 8-track Lp. Makes sense, too, that a later stereo pressing may have originated around that time, though I've no evidence (yet) that this was so; coulda come a few years later.

I also have the Ben E. King jukebox 33, which was just lifted off the stereo Atco Lp, so you've got at least one fake stereo track on that one. That seemed to be the logical trend with those albums, they were just lifted from the album masters. Ray's would be an exception, for obvious reasons.

 

so, can anyone tell me when "What'd I Say" first appeared in true stereo (I assume the full 6:28 version)?

 

The answer is there in the first post:

 

thanks, Steve. I missed that first post as I came to this page via a web search on a specific text, and didn't notice there were previous pages!
I have a list of several other songs where I want to know when the first stereo mix appeared. Seems this board is good for this sort of info.

 

A Reference Quality Thread

 

Steve Hoffman: "What'd I Say" is difficult, the instrumental parts are out of balance and if corrected, when his voice comes in on the first line it's too loud necessitating a quick dip on the right channel. Also, the electric piano is mud but his voice is too sharp in tone, and since both are on the right channel it gets tricky to get the right balance.

Over on the left channel, the drums are total mud on the tape, hampered by a "CBS Volumax" type of limiting that dips the signal when a cymbal is whacked and the slow recovery time means the next few cymbal hits are also dipped. Dreadful.

Steve,

Your ear correlates exactly with mine on this track on the "The Great Hits Of Ray Charles In 8 Track Stereo". First time I heard this LP, I knew what limiting was used. You've been in radio as I have been and still am and we know the CBS Volumax limiting too well. In the day, you could not escape hearing them. And that slow recovery time was so often audible. I know later on that some of the Volumaxes got hot rodded by engineers to enable faster recovery on such transient attacks. The limitations of old audio processing strike again.

 

The Steve Hoffman Forum does its part to stimulate the economy again...

As a result of this thread being bumped, I went on eBay today and picked up a copy of "Uh Huh!" for a mere $13 including shipping. I'm not the biggest fan of Brother Ray's ABC period (I vastly prefer the Atlantic era), but it's well worth $13 just to hear what Steve did with What'd I Say!

 

Have you heard the mono/stereo versions on the 2012 Complete Atlantic box?

 

Question for the experts...

Based on this thread, I've gone back and ripped every copy of "What'd I Say" to my computer, to really compare the different mixes.
There's something funny (in every copy of both the mono and stereo mixes) happening on the decay of the beat just before "see the girl with the diamond ring" - the low mids suddenly take on a weird quality, and then clamp away just as suddenly halfway through the word "see" - it's almost like a door is being shut on certain frequencies. The same thing happens to a lesser extent on the decay of the beat a line later, just before "she knows how to shake that thing".
Individually examining the left and right channels of the stereo mix, it's only audible in the right channel. At first I wondered if it was like a limiter artifact on Ray's vocal, but checking the later "See the girl with the red dress on", which has almost the same timing and inflection, you don't hear the same happen (and I assume it would?).

Soo.... what am I hearing?

 

I know this is a fairly old thread but I revisited it about three weeks ago. I managed to find a very good copy of the version you posted a picture of from a seller on Discogs. Was it expensive? Yes. Was it worth it? Absolutely. It's stacked very carefully with all my other vintage 45 R.P.M. singles.

 

I think it's more likely that Tom Dowd was simply exaggerating or didn't remember the details. Kind of like his claim that Cream's Crossroads was edited (it wasn't). The full recording seems to be what's on the stereo mix.

The mono mix seems to have dialog from a different take completely, not just an overdub/remix. Not only is Ray different, the mono mix has a distinctive female "Stop! Do it again!" that isn't present on the stereo mix.

Say what? The commercial 45 is the same as the version on the What'd I Say LP, is it not?

So there are *three* different takes of dialog in the middle of the song?

45: "Naw, uh uh...wait a minute...hold it!"
Stereo: "What?! What's that? What's that? One time? All right."
promo 45: ???

 

Ahh, yeah, that makes sense. Many thanks, Steve!

 

The studio ones, to me, always sounded sparse and his delivery hesitant and/or laid back. He NAILS all the mojo of it, though, with the 1964 live version for ABC.

 

So the opening statement still stands? Only differences found is the chatter/dialog - three versions?

1. 45 RPM single, 1959: Part one on side one that fades. Part two on side two.

2. LP version mono, 1959: Part one and two are joined and do not fade.

3. Special DJ 45 RPM single, 1959: Different workup of both part one and part two that is unique to this record alone. No commercial 45, LP or CD release of this version exists anywhere.

4. "Twist With Ray Charles" version in mono from 1961. A Tom Down remix from the 8-track. First release of the complete song aka "long version".

5. "Hit Of Ray Charles Recorded On Eight-Track Stereo" LP from 1964. This version matches #4 but was mixed in 1964 in true stereo for the first time for this "stereo only" LP release.

 

I haven't gotten any farther tracking down the DJ 45, but I stumbled upon this curiosity:






A Seeburg "Little LP" for use in their jukeboxes. From Billboard:

"Atlantic Atco Issue First Little LP's

NEW YORK - Atlantic and Atco Records have hopped on the little LP bandwagon. The companies issued their first little LP's last week in conjunction with Seeburg for use in the company's juke boxes.

Atlantic and Atco are opening their little LP campaign with six selections including pop, rhythm and blues and jazz material. The little LP's are: "Under the Boardwalk," by the Drifters; "What'd I Say," by Ray Charles; Ben E. King's "Greatest Hits"; Bent Fabric's Organ Grinders Swing"; Bobby Darin's Winners" and Hank Crawford's "True Blue."

Seeburg has placed an initial order with Atlantic and Atco for 12,000 of the little LP's. Atlantic will cull additional selections from its catalog to make up future releases."

It's the 5 (or 6 if you count What'd I Say as 2 songs) songs on the What'd I Say album recorded on 8-track, presumably simply taken from The Great Hits of Ray Charles Recorded on 8-Track Stereo. Interestingly, the catalog number (SD 8029) is the same as the stereo release of the former. Does anyone know if that used the true stereo mixes, or if the entire album was reprocessed?

Also, here's the back of the Great Hits LP:



Some of the technical bits:

"This set of performances is doubly remarkable. First, it represents an insurmountable peak in Charles' career. Second, the album is available in stereo only (none of these records was ever available in stereo before) and it was taped on an eight-channel tape recorder.

The techniques employed were a means to a clearly defined end. Atlantic has been recording on eight-track tape for seven years; no other company uses this expensive inch-wide tape for its sessions. The objective is the ultimate in today's concepts of recorded sound.

The use of eight channels means, among other things, that complete control can be exercised over the balance among as many as eight instruments and/or voices, that the quality and quantity on each of these inlets is adjustable, and that the fidelity is unmatched among recording techniques. The frequency range involved, and the consistency of responses within that range, seems unlikely to be surpassed, or need improvement, in the foreseeable future."

And:

"This is a high fidelity recording. Atlantic uses a specially constructed 8-channel Ampex (300-8R) tape recorder for its recording sessions. Individual microphone equalization is not permitted. The sound created by musicians and singers is reproduced as faithfully as possible, and special care is taken to preserve the frequency range as well as the dynamic range of each performance."

It's a bit surprising that in the next 14 years Atlantic never went back and remixed What'd I Say at the very least.

 

I had no idea that a red & black Atlantic 45 would have a yellow & black promo. And it's not even like What'd I'd Say was released as they were phasing the y/b labels out - that had happened a few years earlier. All the Ray Atlantic promos that I have from this era are black & white. Are there any real Atlantic experts reading this thread that can tell me why this happened?