The Beatles BBC upgrades

In case anyone's interested in hearing clips of the live gigs with Pete recorded for the BBC, you can have a look at my recent blog post:

http://oxtango.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-essential-live-beatles-part-1-bbc.html

 

Cool!

 

I personally do not believe that Ringo is against Pete Best BBC or other archival material being released, its just more to do with 'sound quality' why it didn't make the official sets why would it even bother Ringo at this point in time ??

 

Ever ask Ringo for a simple autograph? ...

 

But then again, a full set is "available".

 

Yeah, I have these tracks on the "I Saw Her Standing There" release that came out when they went into public domain in Europe. They are interesting but sound quality is unlistenable compared to the Live at the BBC tracks (even Beautiful Dreamer on vol 2). Unless there is a better source out there.

 

I doubt Ringo is so thin-skinned that he would care about such a thing. He apparently didn't care about 16 non-Ringo tracks being on Anthology 1, why would he suddenly care now about these three tracks?

And again, rather than speculating about band politics and/or trying to read Ringo's mind, it makes sense to go with the simplest and most obvious explanation. The tracks sound like s**t, the recordings are extremely low fi. They would stick out like a sore thumb on any release. That seems sufficient reason why the band doesn't want to put them out on a CD.

 

It's not that Ringo is thin-skinned. As mentioned before, it's a branding issue. And BIG businesses do not (or very rarely) play around with their branding. The Anthology was a huge multi-million dollar project. It encompassed audio, video, TV, apparel, and all sorts of memorabilia, and lasted for over a year. It had to include Pete Best's part in that history because it was striving to be the final historical and definitive documentation of the band.

But now, any further BBC release will be a very minor sales item. And any release that Apple does just keeps the branding in place. And in my opinion, releasing anything minor will dilute the brand. To me, it would be like Apple releasing a T-shirt with Pete on it. It just won't happen.

 

You mean like this?


At any rate, I'm not buying your argument that releasing a "minor sales item" like an additional BBC CD with Best on three tracks would in any way dilute the brand. As I noted, his presence wouldn't be noticed by anyone but the people who read the liner notes.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, because it seems pretty clear to me that if those tracks existed in pristine sound quality, they would have been on the first BBC release in 1994.

 

Oh, that's an old Anthology shirt with Pete's head cut off (in the Merseybeat Poll Winners image) to reveal Ringo. But I appreciate your fighting spirit.

But yes, I do agree that if the few Pete BBC tracks were of much better quality, then they would likely have been strong possibilities for the first CD set from 1994.

 

Pete's head is cut off in the "Savage Young Beatles" photo in the center, but he's fully visible in another photo in the lower left. Stuart's visible in the collage too. Why doesn't that "dilute the brand"?

I'm confused. So are you saying that they weren't concerned with diluting their brand back then, but they are now?

Here's a hypothetical... if those low-fi, crappy-sounding recordings featured Ringo, do you think they would be more likely to release them now, despite the awful sound?

 

The Anthology project was an HISTORICAL project. Hence all history of the band was allowed to be in play.

Yes, I would say that. In the 1990s, Apple was just getting back into action after about two decades of fighting, suing, and/or not really doing much of anything productive. I think that Apple definitely changed after Anthology was done. I think Jeff Jones is aware of this and helps to keep the branding/marketing method of operation.

I think that they would still be held back, just as they held back those few other lo-fi tracks like "I Should Have Known Better" and "I'm Happy Just To Dance With You". But in my opinion, having Pete on any tracks, disqualifies them now at the present time.

 

So am I understanding correctly... you think the low fidelity is the primary reason for holding them back, and Pete's presence is a secondary reason?

How about this hypothetical then... if pristine, excellent sound quality tapes of those performances were suddenly discovered today, do you think Apple would release them?

 

I think in 1994 the lo-fi presence played the more important role. As mentioned before, this was just when Apple started to get on their feet again, and Neil Aspinall was still in charge.

However, when the 2nd BBC volume came out in 2o13, I think BOTH the lo-fi quality and Pete's presence played an equal role. Since Apple had two good reasons to not include them, it made it easier to dismiss them altogether. (It also fit in with their branding marketing plan.)

I'd still say "no". The only exception, in my opinion, would be if Apple decided to do a COMPLETE BBC set with everything ever recorded by the Beatles at the Beeb. In that case, and only that case, would they allow the Pete songs.

And again: This is all my opinion. I have no special knowledge as to the "real" reasons for Apple's choice, and I might be completely wrong. And your view is equally as valid as mine, and I perfectly understand your argument. I hadn't really thought that deeply about this topic until this thread. So you've helped to make me think a bit more and I appreciate that. Your comments have been presented well, and I'm glad to have them.

 

The finny thing is, the BBC tracks with Pete Best are pretty good performances. If there were pristine quality recordings available they would be a welcomed addition to a BBC package

 

Two things that puzzle me about the official BBC releases:

1. LEND ME YOUR COMB: Despite being one of the "special 36" songs unique to the BBC repertoire, and despite its availability in excellent sound quality, "Lend Me Your Comb" didn't make the cut for the 1994 "Live At The BBC" album. Its omission seemed so odd that reporters actually asked about it at one of the pre-release press conferences. George Martin said its omission was likely due to its lack of merit, musically. Then, just a year later, it was released on "Anthology 1." And then, in 2013, this same performance was released again, this time on "Live At The BBC Volume 2." It was the only previously released track on the set.

2. DEVIL IN HER HEART: In early 1995, a BBC version of this song was released for the first time on the "Baby It's You" EP, along with two other newly released BBC recordings, "Boys" and I'll Follow The Sun." But in 2013, when "Live At The BBC Volume 2" was released, only two of these three tracks that were unique to the EP made it onto the new album. A different version of "Devil In Her Heart" -- one without an obvious lyric-related flub by George -- was used for the album. So completists still need that EP if they want all of the officially released BBC tracks.

 

As for Lend Me Your Comb: I always heard the opposite---namely, that Apple really liked "Lend Me Your Comb" and specifically held it back so that it could be included on Anthology 1.

As for the alternate version of Devil In Her Heart, I think they erred (by accident, maybe) on the old EP by picking the version with the flub. So they rectified their earlier error by replacing it with the "better" version on the Volume 2 set. However, that made the EP version into a rarity now.

 

Thanks - much appreciated!

 

There are several shows still MIA.

 

That's our main point of disagreement then. I think that if high-quality sources for those Pete tracks had been discovered this century, they most definitely would have been on the second volume of BBC stuff. I can't imagine them leaving off high quality recordings of otherwise unavailable songs simply due to Pete's presence, for all the reasons I've stated above. At any rate, guess we've beaten this topic into the ground. Cheers!

 

But at least now we can all feel a sense of resolution & closure. I can begin the weekend with an unencumbered mind.

Mark

 

If I ever bump into Jeff Jones, I will ask him about this. And you know what: I bet he'd give me an honest answer. Of course, the likelihood of me bumping into him is very low.

 

So if "Boys" and " I'll Follow The Sun" were released in the 1995 EP, then " Lend Me Your Comb" IS NOT the only previously released track on the 2013 set, i guess.

 

Yes, that's correct. Bad phrasing on my part.
I like Volume 2, but it really feels "padded," with the inclusion of those songs and the lengthy interview segments, which should have been relegated to a "bonus" third disc.

 

I meant all that is known to still exist is available.