Do you know how to ship records? Or I'm I complaining too much?

Hello everyone. Been following these forums for years but finally decided to sign up.

So I've been having some pretty bad luck on average this year ordering records off the net. And I'm not even talking about the shady Discogs / Ebay buyer. We're talking about webstores, professional music labels, online record shops, etc.

Brand new records being shipped so lazily. I'm getting creases, seam splits, warped records, corner damage of all degrees.

I mean one online record store sent me an LP from the UK to the US in an envelope. An envelope!!!! No protection whatsoever.

I don't know if its just bad luck at this point. It's been a bad streak.

The thing is I'm starting to get to a point where I feel like I'm complaining too much but if the records aren't good condition, what I'm I supposed to do? I mean, it's not like these records cost 2 dollars. It's simply unacceptable. And sure, you give me my money back or send a replacement, but come on man, you can just put more effort and focus the first time and save everyone so much hassle.

I'm just venting man. My wife could give a **** less about faulty record shipping.

Are there any tips or directions you guys give to assure that kind of stuff is minimized or completely avoided?

 

Who are you ordering from?

 

Johnny:

A bunch of different places:

- Amazon
- Ebay
- Discogs

- Sound Stage Direct
- Music Direct
- Acoustic Sounds

- Forced Exposure
- Other Music
- Juno Records UK
- Sounds Of The Universe / Soul Jazz Records UK
- Light In The Attic
- Fat Beats
- Numero Group
- Athens Of The North UK (via their Bandcamp)
- Rappcats (Main site for releases of the Now-Again Label which I love)

Currently waiting on orders from:
- RVNG Intl.
- Thrill Jockey Reocrds

For the most part I try to support the artist or label directly. The audiophile stores I've never had any issues with because they're very focused on getting the packaging right. Numero Group has given me no issues as well.

 

So the streak continues....

Juno Records from the UK has been awful with my orders this year.

So I had told their customer service to please never use the unprotected envelopes they're putting their records in. And the replacement copy of a record that they had originally sent damaged, they sent in that exact same type of envelope. They don't even put stiffeners in the envelope, the just stick the record inside and ship. No protection whatsoever.

To be specific, this cardboard envelop is done by a company called Lil Packaging. Model is called FLP Flatpack, dimensions: 13.5 x 13.5 inches.

Here's an interesting video on it:



Almost wanted to punch this guy (in my mind of course). Maybe it works for domestic shipping. Unfortunately, this a horrible horrible solution for international shipments. The cardboard isn't really that sturdy and it doesn't really protect the record at all.

And obviously the thing to do is simply to not order from them, but the thing is I've been buying from these guys since 2005 and I've never had the problems that I'm having with them this year. My shipping requests aren't being acknowledged or honored. I'm waiting to hear from their customer service but it looks like I might be done with these guys for a while.

Again, if anyone has any tips or any additional instructions you give online sellers to avoid or minimize this kind of stuff, that would be great.

 

That's awful packaging, but it's no surprise that most non-audiophile stores send records in totally inadequate packaging... Juno in particular is historically linked to the DJ/Pro dance music world and that's one environment where traditionally package means very little, records are tools, and covers are there only to hold the record in place... certainly Juno is a lot different today than what it was back in the nineties but these things kind of stay and form the DNA of a business.

Big stores that really don't have any "personal touch" anymore are also to be avoided for the same reason. Sure they can offer amazing return policies or automatic refunds because they sell so much... but does it pay for the wasted time and worrying? Not in my experience. Shouldn't they do things right in the first place, since they make so much money selling enormous quantities? Sure they should... but they don't, and they don't because they still sell a huge lot.

That works because we live in a fast and cheap world. Most consumers today neglect quality, people look at the immediate cost of things, but fail to see that the real cost is not what they see on the sticker (or screen), the real cost is how much they spend to buy something without confidence, not being satisfied with the purchase, potentially wasting time (or other valuable resources) as the result of bad service... That is the real cost.

Good packaging costs a lot of money. Doing things right is costly and time consuming. Most consumers, apparently, are not ready or willing to support that. That's why so many businesses (actually the most successful) strive with lousy service standards and almost comical customer care based on doing things wrong and then fixing it for free... it makes no sense, consumers should fight that mentality. Just my two cents

 

If I buy from ebay or Discogs, I make sure to contact the seller before doing a BIN or bidding, and kindly asking if they will add extra cardboard on either side of the LP and reinforce the corners. I will even offer up an extra $1 for the extra cardboard. I usually ask if they use an actual LP mailer. I have bought stuff that is boxed in the most creative ways. And some of these homemade packaging jobs that do not utilize an LP mailer can be downright challenging to open without doing damage myself. Some act like you are asking for Crown Jewels (move on) but most will do it for you, with varying degrees of success. (I have seen a small pizza box inside of a medium pizza box, double boxed!) It is a crapshoot. Media Mail is brutal. I agree; plonking down good money for an LP only to have it show up with dinged corners, creases, etc... is absolutely maddening.

On ebay, Craig Moerer Records By Mail are always packed to withstand the abuse. They are a little more expensive, but the extra effort and cost saves you the hassle of paypal cases & nasty back and forth emails with sellers, etc....I find I go there more and more.

 

Like you I'm also tired of split seams, bent corners, and trashed covers so, I've been ordering from Ernie B's Reggae website. On their info sheet they state "Our packaging is the most secure in the industry, so you will not receive damaged product (no dented LP jackets ,broken CD's, etc.) So far 100% success rate. They also sell on Amazon.

Also agree that Craig Moerer ( Records by mail ) does a great job.

 

When buying from Europe I always ask for extra cardboard and always stress the word "Sturdy". I further go on about how rough USPS can be with the mail. While that certainly can be true I mainly do it that way because European cardboard mailers are thin, inadequate and generally lousy, and there's nothing much we can do about it, but if I tell a Seller thatt they may take offense, which is not where I want to go.. It's still 50/50 as to whether or not a Seller will pay attention to my request, even when they've confirmed in writing that they will. Whenever I receive one of these packages and the item is fine despite the utter lack of care I'm just thankful that the shipping Gods have smiled on my purchase, either that or it's pure dumb luck, either way I'll take it !

 

Here's how it's done on the right side of Europe





Check details here:
http://www.vinylgourmet.com/en/content/11-expert-packaging

 

I wrote a letter to USPS once to complain that every record album I get through the mail has damage, usually a bent corner. The response was that they use sorting machines and the damage is unavoidable so I should insure the shipment. I once received a record with a hole completely through the box and vinyl as if it was stabbed by a bayonet.

 

These guys you listed use some of the sturdiest mailers in the business in my experience:
- Sound Stage Direct
- Music Direct
- Acoustic Sounds

As far as the 'Lil Flat Pack, I wouldn't use it to send a record across town!

 

The lil flat pack actually appears to be pretty good, according to the flex test in the video. Is there any additional support in the package..a sheet of plastic, etc, or is it just folded corrugated cardboard? I'm guessing international shipping costs can be cut in thirds as opposed to a standard lp mailer.
I'm not defending the lil sucker...I just received a Hoffmann DCC lp in an envelope. I'll repeat that again. In an envelope.