To SUT or not to SUT, that is the question

Anyone ever try a step-down transformer for an ego?

You said it. You can learn so much if you have options and settings. So far I've not found any combinations of speakers and gear that can fix a congested recording.

 

I found the auditorium a23 to be a great match with the denon 103. Note that is the 103, which is a better match with the standard a23 SUT then the 103r which the Sut was not designed for.

I now have the Auditorium A23 T2 with my EMT TSD 15 which is a phenomenal combo.

 

So what makes one SUT better, or how would a designer customize one to a cartridge? Custom windings? Voltage optimization with loading customized with a resistor? Seems like the options are few.

 

The type of actual transformers being used seems to be the biggest factor, beyond loading etc.

 

Composition of the cores, wires, winding technique? I assume all, but are some transformers custom or do they all use vintage?

 

More importantly, where do buy one of these A23 SUT's for my DL103?

 

Well, if you don't go the SUT route you will have to rely on someone else telling you which phono preamp to use, and, if you want to change MC carts, the phono preamp for one Cart may be less than optimal for another.

 

I never said I prefer using MC carts with MM phono stages.

I use MC carts with a custom designed MC phono stage/preamp.

 

Good Day Randy Van Ooyen. I wanted to chime in because I have some of the very same equipment that you discuss in this post. I have never heard the ADS L710's, but owned the 4312's and I consider them a classic and very good speakers for the money. I am a big fan of using a SUT with my 103R, however Chervokas advice of giving your system a listen first without the SUT is not a bad idea. It will "cost you nothing to try" and will give you a standard for comparison if/when you add the SUT. I built a Budgie SUT using the Cinemag 1254 transformers for my 103R and love the combination. Be sure to note that the 103 and 103R are different enough from each other to require different SUT's for best performance. IMHO, certain cartridge/SUT combinations can be "magical" instead of adequate or just "very good". Good luck wading through all the many opinions on this. Filter through them and find what is best for you and your situation.

 

They might be expensive but the Rogue Ares rocks. You can change gain and impedance settings all you want and even change tubes for more or less gain.

 

The Denon AU-310 works well with the DL-103D.
I think they made better ones, but the 310/103 sounds very good to me.

 

My DL-103R sounds excellent with the Denon AU-320. It is dead silent. Budget permitting, I expect to compare the Budgie CM1254 at some early point.

Trying any of the 103s into a MM phono input is likely to produce very low volume and very high noise. However, it costs nothing to try, except frustration.

The question of SUT vs. active MC stage and then, which one, exactly, is food for endless debate.

 

Ah, okay, I gotcha. The way you worded it threw me off.

 

Personally, I would go without the SUT and find a good phono stage that will do Low output MC has loading options, and MM. There are a bunch of great ones out there. SUT's are good if you have a MC cartridge and a MM phonostage you really like, but they are adding more power supplies and interconnects into the equation which isn;t a good thing.

 

Well a SUT won't don't add any more power supplies to the chain. It's a transformer, it's a completely passive gain device. That's the big appeal of SUT -- no active devices, no power supply noise, no thermal noise. Interconnects, yes, but if you keep it to a foot or two of very low cap, well-shielded cable cable, the added cabling won't be a big deal (assuming you can locate the SUT away from any hum-inducing sources of EMF radiation with very short cables).

 

Adding interconnects is never a good thing.

 

Eh, adding anything isn't a good thing -- adding additional active gain to the phono circuit is never a good thing either, it's gonna add more noise and deliver worse S/N but if you want to use a LOMC, you'll need it (or a SUT), neither is adding a preamp to the chain, but you want to switch between sources; or a volume knob or a balance knob to the preamp, or the hook up wire from the built in step up transformers in some preamps to the first gain stage, but we like the convenience. All of 'em degrade transparency, affect phase and frequency response, etc. It's all a compromise. A foot or two of of low cap shielded cable and connectors between the SUT and the phono stage ain't gonna make or break things, and it's not necessarily going to result in worse sound that additional gain from an active circuit, probably better sound in terms of S/N.

 

BTW, which is not to say that you can't get great sound out of a phono pre built for MC's with all active amplification, or that the ideal isn't always the simplest possible signal path....just that I wouldn't sweat a couple of feet of low cap, well-shielded cables in that application as a make-or-break reason to avoid using a SUT. Even with the cables, it's a solution that can give you lots of clean, silent, grain-free gain, which not every active phono gain stage will do. I'd certainly be careful to use the shortest possible cables, low cap cables, low cap connectors, and definitely well-shielded cables in that application -- unshielded cables are certain to give you hum problems there for sure.

 

Tell that to anyone running mono blocks.

 

Adding contact junctions (switches, jacks/plugs) on a line level signal (mono block feed) is not such a big deal when compared doing the same on small signal lines such as phono cartridge lines.

 

Geezus. I give up. Good luck people. LOL

 

It's a good thing most of us are experienced and knowledgeable enough to ignore this nonsense.

 

It's a compromise.

 

Well I have gotten an education on the subject from one post. Thanks All!
I will process all the suggestions and likely first use the active Manley MC phono stage and with the Denon 103R for a baseline and then add in the Lyra Delos Cart and give that some significant listening/ tweaking time. The Chinook has a reputable decent MC stage with lots of adjustment and loading options for low out put MCs. I will keep an open mind and when the next round of upgraditis hits, maybe try a SUT using the suggestions here. Awesome forum!

 

Sounds a great approach.