My experience with a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon TT

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by BKphoto, Aug 30, 2015.

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  1. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    wowie...if acrylic was the same thickness as the steel it would bend...cant be done...its not the same, sorry...i owned one for a while and tested the **** out of it before i sold it...there are no others to buy its one size fits all...the project acril-it platter...

    so anyway, i'm bored of arguing...
     
  2. pbiancardi

    pbiancardi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dyer, IN
    You clearly have a bone to pick, good luck with that. I'm not even saying your wrong, there are lots of posts with similar (but less severe) issues..
     
  3. jeffsab

    jeffsab Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I bought a DC as an open box (notice that there are always plenty of these available as open box specials--that should tell you something) thinking it might replace my Dual 1219 and/or Technics SL-D3, both of which can be finicky. I was dismayed at the cheapness of the Project within minutes of pulling it out of the box. I think I spun maybe three sides before deciding to return it. Sound was nothing special, and footfalls made it skip. Sure, these cheap entry turntables have their place, but not for me. I have since purchased a Denon DP300F, which is not only less expensive but seems better built and sounds equally acceptable, plus it's fully automatic.

    I think the larger point to be taken from the thread is that the Project turntables are made to a low price point and are not particularly high quality units.
     
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  4. Isaac K.

    Isaac K. Forum Resident

    That's not the thickness that I was talking about, the edge of the rim is the same height. But now that I'm home I can more accurately see what you mean by the acrylic sitting higher... But I'm convinced that it's by design and not fault. You don't need a mat with that platter and my tone arm is absolutely level to it when a record is spinning. I think that THAT is what is most important, not all of this mumbo jumbo we've been carrying on about.
     
  5. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    agree...so when i put on a 180g record my arm was past level, not by a lot, but it was...was it within specs, probably...but again, my problems with this table are excessive rumble/feedback/motor noise...
     
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  6. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    not any bone to pick with you at all, but you kind of called me a liar...so the thread went haywire for awhile...it happens...
     
  7. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I measured both platters with a graduated carpenters square and the difference in height comes down to the platter mat.

    Comparing the height of the acrylic without a mat to the iron with the mat it comes with, the acrylic is 1/16 thicker.

    Using a cork or thicker mat on the iron makes it even. Now using a mat on the acrylic will make that higher by more than an 1/8.

    The Debut doesn't have vta adjustment and if you are getting that serious about precision, it is indeed time for a new table.

    Unless you are spending 4k on a table with vta adjustment on the fly, you are going to set it at one position and leave it fixed.

    All of this is rather pointless. It's not like the complaints of the op centered around platter height.

    What might be helpful for people to know is that if you are using a mat with the acrylic platter, you are bringing the vta adjustment well above the factory setting.
     
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  8. pbiancardi

    pbiancardi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dyer, IN
    That was my only point, saying that the acyrlic throws off the VTA by "a lot" just isn't accurate. Saying that a 180g record changes the VTA is accurate but with both platters equally (and all other tables also).

    As for the hum / other issues if OP cares to try maybe some of those can be solved or lessened. Start with removing those screws and see if it helps your hum...I just reread first post and you say those screws cannot be removed, they can, that is what stopped my hum (and many others that I have read about). Also sometimes I have to make sure RCA cables are tight, they seem to come loose which can cause awful hum.

    http://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2...turntable.html#/forumsite/3207/topics/1513521

    https://www.reddit.com/r/vinyl/comments/27g0rj/project_debut_carbon_drastically_reduce_motor_hum/

    Worth a shot anyway...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  9. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    you need to get the dust rag out my friend...ha


    when i took mine out the motor leaned towards the middle and the belt didn't ride very smooth...vibration got worse...mine isn't a hum, its rumble which is killing me...when i put the screws in with the neoprene washers it seemed to work best..

    as far as getting rid of acrylic platter, the reason was that after testing the stock platter with a cork mat sounded better...the acrylic sounded dead compared to the stock
     
  10. I'd hesitate to make such a sweeping statement about Pro-ject tables. I've owned two, neither were cheap or poorly made and if I could justify the expense I'd have no qualms moving to a Signature 12. If you mean the entry level Pro-jects, then yes you have a valid point going by the some of the points raised on this and other threads.
     
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  11. wgb113

    wgb113 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chester County, PA
    Over two years with my Carbon and not a complaint. I've had a 2M Blue on it since new along with the Acrylic-It platter, Puck-It weight, SpeedBox 2 and PhonoBox V USB. Two buddies with Regas, one a P2 and the other a Planar 3 are always amazed at the quality of my needle drops.

    Bill
     
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  12. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    One of the hardest things for me to come to terms with when I got into vinyl was the expense. At the time, the $400 I spent on the Debut felt like a stupid amount of money.

    As time goes by, the record collection grows, you start to experience more equipment and understand the value of the upgrades. It is a process that can only take place if you get in the game.

    Once upon a time I found this forum because I googled "Pro-Ject Debut Carbon". I dare say many others followed this path and at some point someone following that same path will read this thread and be discouraged from making the purchase. I doubt they will buy a $1,000 table as an alternative.

    At $400 this is the best table you can get. Certainly the RP-1, U-turn and Music Hall are in the conversation. I am fairly certain the Music hall is made in the same factory as the Pro-ject, for the RP-1 to be better you need the performance pack and that sends the cost up to $600. The U-turn comes with a much lesser cartridge and the tone arm is a huge down grade from the carbon fiber.

    If you find a Debut with a buzz or a hum, get rid of it. At the very least take it back to where you bought it and have them demo it in their shop, see if the buzz show up in their system.

    Something to keep in mind is that most people that are buying an entry level table are getting their first table. They may not experts in setting up equipment. I would have sworn I set up my table this weekend perfectly, I've been doing it quite well for years. I had a bad buzz and it was the ground and speaker cables hooked up incorrectly. Record players can be tricky. The last thing I would ever do would be to take a screwdriver to the motor and try to "fix" it. I've read another thread bashing Pro-jects where a first timer brought it home and switched out the cart. He read on this forum that Sure was better than the Ortofon so he went right for the switch. Guess what, it didn't work out so well and he blamed Pro-ject. I mean switching out a cart your first day owning a table sounds like a great idea, right? what could go wrong?

    It is a $400 table that comes equipped with a $100 cartridge. In that scenario, I doubt quality control is up to medical grade in the manufacturing environment but its hard to have it both ways.

    To the OP, I saw your pics. It's clear you know what you're doing with set up. I would guess your problem is that you are a little too far advance with your system to get what you wanted (or needed) from a Pro-ject.
     
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  13. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    when you buy something new it shouldn't be this hard to make it sound like it should...at the moment i put the red stylus back on and it is brighter than the blue but much less record noise...the Music Hall equivalent does share some parts but puts them together in a better way, from my experience...unfortunately you don't really know how anything is going to sound until its in your own house...
     
  14. 500Homeruns

    500Homeruns Peaceful Punk

    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    After reading this thread, I am reconsidering all of the listening enjoyment I have had in the past few years with my Debut Carbon. :shrug:
     
  15. Every good retail should take it back towards something else within 30 days. This is not a friggen car.
     
  16. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    when i got the second one (i should have gotten a refund instead) but i was gone for 2 weeks, the rumble issue didn't show its head until sometime after i finished restoring my Quantum 2's...tuned up the volume to about 11:00 and i thought the woofers were going to come flying right out of the cabs...really freaked me out...never had this problem before...by the time i figured out what the deal was it was past 30 days...

    bought it online...they gave me the shoulder shrug...i didn't break their balls, not their fault...

    so i was told how to test for it...took the belt off, lowered the needle on a record and slowly turn up the volume, it comes on around 10:00 on the volume (180 watt amp) they start to move a little then it really comes on...
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  17. jeffsab

    jeffsab Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Thank you for clarifying that. I should have specified the Debut series.
     
  18. leeroy jenkins

    leeroy jenkins Forum Resident

    Location:
    The United States
    I've had the Debut Carbon for a couple years and haven't had any issues. It sounds better than my early 80s Technics, but it could be that it just has a better cartridge.
     
  19. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    So you've got one of those Orbits?
    I didn't know they were available.
    Is there a thread here discussing this?
    How does it sound?
     
  20. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    So you have big ol monitor speakers with low bass. What do you expect with vol at 10 o clock and above? You need serious isolation and a better TT. I think you just need to aim higher with these speakers as you've discovered. Decent vinyl playback is now pricey but always has been to an extent. I guess I grew up with it and realised the value of high grade TT in the 70's - difference 30-40 years ago £100 would by you something seriously good. Production cost and mark ups means £300 is the minimum for a basic hi-fi TT. I imagine the U turn is direct sell and US made? - so may give better engineering for the money. Still I would be aiming higher and more expensive unfortunately.
     
  21. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Clearly the DC isn't the right rig for people expecting a high-quality turntable.
     
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  22. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.
    While I have never heard a DC table, when they were introduced, I was concerned that it had too much arm for the table design. Can you just stick a higher level arm on an entry level table without any other design changes? Or am I missing something. I own a Music Hall 2.2, it is a fairly quiet table with an arm better suited for it's design(?), And it has adjustable VTA, although the DC comes with a much better cart - IMO. And IIRC, the DC has a slightly different motor mount/isolation design. I would think the regular Debut without the carbon arm would be better suited for the table design. This post is just as much question as comment, as I am not a tech..
     
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  23. krisjay

    krisjay Psychedelic Wave Rider

    Location:
    Maine
    http://store.uturnaudio.com/products/orbit-builder
    Yes, it is available, you can build it as you see fit, I have the acrylic platter, with AT95E, Jico stylus, you can get one of the Grado's as well. It sounds wonderful, certainly an entry level table, but I like it better then my Carbon. US made is a biggie for me also.



    It sounds wonderful.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
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  24. Isaac K.

    Isaac K. Forum Resident

    People expecting a higher quality turntable shouldn't expect to get one at this price point, and honestly people that order things online sight unseen get what they deserve. It's easier, but it's also a risk.
     
  25. kman

    kman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana
    I agree with your statement --- except for one point, and that is not everyone lives in an area where you can buy a new turntable in a store
     
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