Did Goats Head Soup "change" the Rolling Stones?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Baba Oh Really, Sep 2, 2015.

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  1. audiotom

    audiotom I can not hear a single sound as you scream

    Location:
    New Orleans La USA
    I always loved the term Steel Wheelchairs - that was how long ago?
    Brides to Bank Account as well

    keith's head full of snow
    they also starting branching out to sample reggae (recorded in the islands)

    Mick and Keith didn't seem to be in sync as much

    was this the beginning of the split between the rock star primping image driven lead singer
    and the laid back anything goes guitarist
     
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  2. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Oh Lord. What I want to know is why Kenny did you join The Who when it's obvious to anybody that it was a disastrous fit for you? Good to see you still on the Hoffman site.
    Didn't realize it was you......
    cat's out of the bag......
    I do like your drumming..........
    the beave
     
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  3. Fullbug

    Fullbug Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Goats Head Soup sessions resulted in great songs, but my theory is that the Stones at the point couldn't "hear" (if that makes sense), and they picked the wrong songs from the session to put on the album. In other words, it was all about the outtakes.
     
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  4. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Because, and I've posted this before in other threads, GHS was Jagger's first real attempt at toying with the idea of Taylor ascending to the 'first guitarist' position as Keith literally was going downhill fast. So it makes sense that Jagger would allow Taylor to 'influence' the songs more than a musically dying Keef. He also started experiments like having Taylor SING and mixing his voice to see if it could substitute for Keiths... 'Coming Down Again' is where Jagger NAILED THIS. All three of them take a verse, but trying to id Taylors verse and Keefs verse......well, their voices almost sound identical. The only 'sonic fingerprint' that points to Keef is the verse where he sings 'ain't no crime', his nasal 'cri i ime' rats him out. But it is scary how close Jagger, on this song got Taylor to sound, on record, like Keef.
    And the following album, the video promo for 'Till The Next Goodby' says it all. Keef in the BACKGROUND and Mick Taylor UP FRONT singing as Micks 2nd man.
    nuff said.
    the beave
     
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  5. Rochdale3

    Rochdale3 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Meridian, ID
    I've always thought it would have been interesting if they had recorded the album during or after the 1973 Tour when they were at their live peak. Instead it sounds a little slow and tired. I'll take the live version of most of these songs any day.

    Mick Taylor leaving was what "changed" The Rolling Stones.
     
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  6. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    Yes. It had a photo of ONLY Jagger on the front (looking very poncey) and, except for one or two tracks, the music was pretty lightweight after such an awesome run since "Beggars Banquet" (since "Satanic Majesties"?).
     
  7. CrombyMouse

    CrombyMouse Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    Now I try to find the moment when Stones became self-referential-touring-cash-making machine. It is definitely not 'GHS'. Early 80s concerts marked the beginning of this age (it was when Jagger started financial planning and they turned to stadiums). Maybe 'Steel Wheels'.
     
  8. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Totally, with respect, disagree with you PJ. '110 years ago' 'Winter' 'Silver Train' 'Can't you hear the Music' on and on. this album is a mature musical carnival ride. I have tired of Sticky Fingers and Exile, I haven't tired of GHS at all. Fascinating Musical Adventure to the max bay beeeeee.
    the beave
    nothing lightweight at all.
     
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  9. Ted Dinard

    Ted Dinard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston suburb
    I'm not a Stones fan, so feel free to ignore this.

    But to me as a casual listener, Goats Head Soup had the last great Rolling Stones song, "Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo" (is that enough?). For a "great song" band, that makes the album still part of the golden era. I don't care much for the other songs on it. ("Angie" came on LSUG recently, and I couldn't take it.)

    For me as a non-Stones fan, their strength is in those late-60s, early 70s great songs--"Jumpin Jack Flash," "Honky Tonk Woman," "Brown Sugar," and so on--that just leap out of the radio. "Doo X6" does that, but none after that ever did for me.
     
  10. B. Bu Po

    B. Bu Po Senior Member

    Yes, they were never the same after drinking the stuff.
     
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  11. Fender Relic

    Fender Relic Forum Resident

    Location:
    PennsylBama
    Yes,this is an analysis well stated and true. The raw was gone and the smooth crafting of sound was in. This was the time frame in general when the whole studio sound for everyone changed for the worse.
     
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  12. Siegmund

    Siegmund Vinyl Sceptic

    Location:
    Britain, Europe
    It's the first of their 'bloated' albums (others would follow). I like it, but then I'm not 'really' a Stones fan...
     
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  13. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Hello Ted.
    No ignoring here. It's good to hear from 'a casual listener' to the Stones. Just as I posted in the Hendrix thread a while ago it's refreshing to get a perspective from people who aren't 'fanatical' about an artist. It's good to hear your impressions and your always welcome to us here in Stones land.
    We are a diverse and inclusive bunch of lunatics after all! :wave:
    the beave
     
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  14. Bellagio Insider

    Bellagio Insider Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Coming off the glorious 1972 Tour, there was nowhere else for them to go. They had really conquered the world with this new lineup and the malaise finally started to settle in (probably not helped by the full blown addictions of Keith, Jimmy Miller and soon to be MT).
     
    RogerB likes this.
  15. Siegmund

    Siegmund Vinyl Sceptic

    Location:
    Britain, Europe

    That's it: even if you didn't know that several of those involved were 'doing stuff', you can sense there is a difference in the music. There's a sort of 'narcotised stumble' to a lot of it.
     
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  16. rjp

    rjp Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    in my opinion....no
     
  17. kenbefound

    kenbefound Forum Resident

    Have they ever received an official release? (asks the blissfully ignorant Stones fan).....
     
  18. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    Short And Curlies appeared on the It's Only Rock 'N' Roll lp.

    Through The Lonely Nights was the non-lp b-side of the It's Only Rock 'N' Roll single.

    Waiting On A Friend and Tops were reworked and appeared on Tattoo You.

    Criss Cross has never been officially released.

    There are also alternate versions and mixes of several of the tracks that sound better in some cases than the released versions.
     
  19. Lightworker

    Lightworker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Deep Texas
    My first reaction to Goat's Head Soup in '73 was disappointment. No really "classic" Stones single
    on board and a lot of rehashed ideas. I like it better now, but I think my first impression was
    a valid assessment.
     
  20. BlueGangsta

    BlueGangsta Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    I still count this as part of their classic run. Probably the last of it.

    The string work on this album is pretty amazing.
     
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  21. George Blair

    George Blair Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Huh...? First I've heard of this, or are you talking about an outtake version? Which verse does Mick Taylor sing on "Coming Down Again" ? I thought Keith sang the whole thing and Mick J. just sang on the choruses. :shrug:
     
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  22. Rojo

    Rojo Forum Resident

    The singles (Star***** and Angie) were not bad. The problem was the rest of the album.
     
  23. dino77

    dino77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Mick Taylor sings a verse on "Coming Down Again"? :confused:
     
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  24. Lightworker

    Lightworker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Deep Texas
    StarFolkker is a low-energy Chuck Berry retread far below the Stones typical gold standard for Berry-derived rockers.
    I've always thought that Angie blows as a Stones ballad...especially when compared to Wild Horses and the best of "Exile".
     
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  25. Seederman

    Seederman Forum Resident

    "Star Star" was not a single in the UK or US (it was the second album single in Germany, France, and the Netherlands)

    "(Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker)" was the UK and US second single. I would easily put that and the mawkish "Angie" on the shortlist of worst Stones singles ever, with maybe "As Tears Go By" as the only competition until the mid-80's. Worst titled single, too.

    About half of Goats Head Soup is kind of a guilty pleasure of mine for its sleazy, faux-glammy, utterly drugged-out ambiance, but the rest doesn't offer much pleasure at all. Repeated plays only show how hollow it is on the heels of some of their richest work. The best thing on it is a Chuck Berry rip that relies on the F word as its chief gimmick.

    To answer the OP, I don't think the album changed the Stones, I think the Stones changed and made this album. The facts are that Richards was about as strung out on smack as he'd ever be, as was Mick Taylor, who already was thinking he wanted out. Jagger was off jetsetting with his new wife. The nicest things I can say about the songs is that they're half finished. It is an album where the band wasn't functioning well together and were incapacitated or disinterested much of the time. This trend kind of continued with the next album, after which Taylor's departure and tabloids asking if the Stones were through got Mick worried enough to put some heart into his job again.
    By the time of their first "comeback", Some Girls, it was no longer the same band. Wood is not the same kind of player as Taylor, the band was playing more funk and stripped down rock. So the change happened, but it was from within the band, not dictated by the material on their weakest album thusfar. Goat's Head Soup was just a signpost of where there heads were at.
     
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