Opinions on 45 vs 33 rpm versions

The first time (that I know of) that a full album was done at 45rpm was Pere Ubu's "Song of the Bailing Man" (1982), and that was a full-length (roughly 40 mins) album that they did at 45 on one disc for the sound. So it can be done.

 

I'm not sure if he wasn't taken out of context somehow. After all, he did the magnificent AP Nat King Cole series, all at 45rpm. That series wouldn't have sounded quite as good at 33.

 

One of the great things about records has always been the idea of album sides, which is lost with the 45 rpm format. It's just the way they were meant to be, sequenced by the artists themselves. It's not worth very slightly better sound (if that) to lose the continuity that the standard 33 rpm format offers, and think of some of the classic album sides that are lost. Hell, the 45 rpm of Ole Coltrane actually cuts the epic title track in half ! Are you ****ing kidding me? I couldn't care less how much better it sounds.

 

I certainly prefer sitting and listening for 20 minutes at a time, but the sound of 45s can be SO good. And comparing the last song on a side of a 33 with that same song on a 12" 45, there's no comparison.

 

I really bought into the 45 mastering trend when Classic reissued the Living Stereo titles in that format. I had all the 33s but at the time I had a lot of money and bought most of the classical and a few jazz 45 titles as well. I think Classic doing the series on single sided discs was overkill, and I'm glad that the trend today is to use both surfaces. The four disc sets just take up too much real estate. Theoretically, there is some small sonic advantage to single sided discs, but I won't get into that!
For me, and the way I listen, I prefer the 45s sonic advantages. I don't mind changing sides often as I am right there in the sweet spot listening intently. I don't listen as background music. I get where people dislike a break in continuity, but it doesn't bother me. That said, I think the Classic RCA and Mercury 45s are all superior sounding and I've never heard the London classical titles sound better than the ORG 45 series, and I have original Decca, London Blueback, Stereo Treasury, Speakers Corner, and King pressings, even Reel to Reel on some like España. The 45s are so superior on my system it's insane. Same with Fleetwood Mac Rumours. It's stunning at 45. I have some of the Music Matters Blue Notes too, though I don't have originals to compare, they are wonderful.
I hate paying $50 for a title, and today I have to much more selective. But for essential titles, I wouldn't want to be without them.

 

Jazz albums I have in both speeds - recent high grade releases

A Love Supreme, Time Out, So What
The 33 1/3 sounds wonderful
Then the 45 rpm takes it even higher

I have all the Music Matters 45s - I rarely played any of them
The new 33 1/3 sound great

The Miles Prestige, Bill Evans Riverside boxes are wonderful on 45 rpm

 

Obviously a 12" record cut at 45rpm will give the best sound possible, that is without any question. It's just physics.

Some of the best sounding records I have are Punk and New Wave and Indie UK 12" singles from the 80's.

Would I want every album cut like this (which would by definition make them all double albums with 4 sides)? No I wouldn't. Some albums are short enough that the improvement would be minimal for double the cost. Also any album made before around 1990 was designed to be two sides and structered in such a way as to work like that.

Where it works for me is an essentially two scenarios - firstly an album like Hail To The Thief, where you couln't fit it all on one album, and then the length means when you split into into 4 sides you can cut them ar 45. Great sounding record.

And the other time is when there is an absolute favourite album and it would be nice to hear the absolute best possible sound, but that would be the rare exception.

 

Weren't many original 33 rpm albums sequenced to optimize side length time and/or putting singles near the beginnings of sides? That is the impression I got after reading many old mastering magazines. Some artists were hands on about sequencing, but the vast majority weren't.

 

Up until the late '60's that's probably true, but after that the sequencing of albums became kind of an art form in and of itself, don't you think?

 

If the album in question is under 50 minutes long, the improvement in sound quality is somewhat negated by the fact that I'm up and down like a bride's nightie changing sides.

 

Yeah, I think most artists/record companies had a clear idea of what the opening track of side one, as well as the opening track of side two, and the closing track on side two would be. The rest could be fiddled. Those opening and closing tracks still wouldn't change on a 2-disc 45rpm release. The "side two opener" would now be the opening track on disc 2. The closer is still the closer. So the intended impact is still there.

 

How can that be even a question if you value sound quality and HAVE ears to appreciate it.

Continuity trumps sound quality? That is rich! I'll listen to a badly recorded cassette tape on a boombox for continuity. No Side 1 before Side 2 break, either. Sheesh.

 

How can you not ask the question? Are you saying the tiniest sound improvement would be worth flipping every song (extreme example)? Probably not. So when do you cross the threshold of the sound improvement being worth flipping more often. In the cases that I have heard, the improvement isn't that great.

As for your other point on continuity, there is a whole generation that would take mp3 quality to have continuation of their entire collection of music.

 

I LOVE the sound of a well mastered 45. And having to get up after 15 minutes (give or take) doesn't bother me in the least - it keeps my attention completely focused on the music. But in the end, I find a well mastered 33 to offer "almost" as much sonically as a good 45.

 

I adore most of the 45rpm versions I've acquired so far for amazing sound quality, but depending on album length, it can be pretty annoying - for instance, the AP Doors box set is stellar, but one side of 'Strange Days' is a total of six and a half minutes! Saying that though, that whole set is 'jaw on the floor' time, as is the US Pallas Rumours and the AP Tea For The Tillerman - once you've heard those it's hard to go back to the standard 33rpm versions!

 

33 rpm for album continuity.
45 rpm (12 inch) for dynamics.

 

45s do sound good (i.e. The Completen Doors set), but there is a whole psychological aspect to albums being (for the most part) side 1 and side 2. When a two sided album becomes four sides, the album completely changes -- as it does on CD as well. Flipping the vinyl between two songs is part of the experience, so I really don't like flipping the vinyl twice or more times for a two sided album, it ruins the experience to a great degree.

 

Hmmm, vinyl underwear -- sounds really uncomfortable, but if it works for you, great. Just curious, what is the DR value of your underwear?

 

From my experience in listening to 45 RPM versions, a great majority of those records (that I bought after a thorough research as to their sound quality) are actually tremendous physical improvements in sound reproduction, all other things being similar their 33 1/3 RPM counterparts. What almost always the 33 1/3 RPM versions either lack or have it in much smaller amounts in comparison to the 12 inch 45s is the low level sounds (air, space, harmonics) almost buried in the noise which now on the 45 s stand in clear relief and make the whole presentation on a completely new level (you are there). It is basic physics of the 45 RPM involved here. (Read Kevin Gray's explanation for details.)

So your assumption about a tiniest improvement creating a dilemma whether it is worth it to flip sides too often proves to me that you possibly never heard a proper playback of a 45 RPM record, or you would not say that. Admittedly, the 45 RPM format is not for everyone. You have got to have a properly set up, very high resolving system in front of you to appreciate the format.


The other point on continuity on a boombox was a pure sarcasm.

 

Ok, I just purchased a Sony PS-FL77 turntable with a great Signet cartridge/stylus, so I'm rediscovering my love for vinyl. I have hundreds of rock albums from Abba to Zeppelin, but I really wanna get some new copies straight from the shrinkwrap. Im curious about the new MOFI 2LP 45RPMs. Where would you start if you were me? I was ready to jump in with "The Stranger" but Ive read a few negative reviews, saying the 45 RPM version is lifeless compared to the original pressing. At $40 a pop, I dont want to make any mistakes.

Cheers!
Don D