Help! Is my new ultrasonic cleaner broken?

Simply brilliant. Upon hearing the sound of hooves, one should first think "horses" rather than "zebras".

 

A price tag doesn't necessarily promise that a kit will sound the way you "believe" it should for the cost, agreed! Much of that is subjective anyway. What can be said though is that at some point, your budget on a turntable (or any other component) will ultimately limit the performance you can expect to hear from it, baring that you have the TT set-up optimally. There is no exact line that anyone can draw that includes/excludes one from a particular level of performance/price, only relatively vague generalizations. That said, yes, one should expect to be able to discern greater levels of detail, transparency, lower levels of distortion, lower levels of surface noise, greater dynamics, from a more expensive TT set-up.

There are so many things going on in an analogue rig or Hifi (in general) that it is hard to say at what level one should expect to hear performance differences and to what degree from an ultrasonic cleaning (or anything else), sorry.

I think that I may agree with earlier posters that at your system level, especially the TT set-up, expecting a dramatic performance improvement from an ultrasonic cleaner, may not be money best spent.

If I had that kind of bread to drop to improve my analogue kit, it would go for a VPI16.5 and the rest would be spent on a higher-end TT/cartridge/phonostage (in that order).

 

Sometimes, when a record is squeaky clean, it's still noisy because the pops and clicks you hear are not from dirt.

 

A handful? Haha! I've got a backlog of several hundred records that need cleaning...one of the reasons for the purchase of the Klaudio.

I'm working with Klaudio on the issue, and they've been pretty responsive. Looks like I will be sending it back down to them to test. Fortunately they're sort-of local (until you factor in Seattle traffic, in which case yeah, UPS baby).

 

I would pay attention to VinylRob's opinion. He knows what he's talking about!

 

The OP already owns a VPI 16.5.

 

I use my Loricraft RCM to clean records, that's all I expect it to do. I'm not looking for a massive jump in sound quality, just is there less surface noise, are there less clicks, that's it.

 

I already have a VPI 16.5. I may or may not keep the Klaudio - sending it back to them to test.

I've decided to head down the rabbit hole and upgrade. I have a VPI Classic 1 with a Dynavector 20X2H cartridge on order from Definitive Audio here in the Seattle area.

 

Now that is a step in the right direction! I feel that your $500 TT set-up wasn't resolving enough to hear what the KL unit could contribute. Just as really expensive interconnects or speaker cable upgrades are lost on lower resolving systems (like mine).

 

Excellent post!! No need to hide.

 

You should be really happy with the new setup.

 

Good audio fortunes to you!

I believe you will be very happy with this choice and yield a tremendous improvement in so may ways for the dollars you have spent. Little else will reveal this kind of improvement system wise.

My apologies for the brain fade on what you already owned and employed in your cleaning regiment. I've become a fan of the AI solutions too.

Even after more than a decade the frontier of ultrasonic record cleaning, though it shows great promise, still leaves a lot of questions unanswered and it is very cost prohibitive. Even Harry from VPI has stated that damage can occur and high frequencies can be truncated if the process is not executed properly. And that a vacuum record cleaner (although he is the leading seller of such) is an irreplaceable part of a complete regiment and I agree wholeheartedly. So in any event, you are a good part of the way there. Both Harry and I and many others, including many DIY folks are experimenting and listening and there is no simple consensus on a methodology with ultrasonics. Ultimately the choice is up to you, I wish you well either way you go, but I think you will really be happy with yourself over that TT and cart purchase.

Happy Analogue Listening!

 

Now you're talking! I can't wait to hear back from you after breaking this rig in for a few hours! Talk about noticing marked improvement! I'm even a little bit giddy for you! Happy Listening!

 

Personally I was disappointed in ultrasonic machines as well. I use a VPI 16.5 I got used for 400 bucks to clean my records. A few months ago I grabbed a copy of Moving Pictures that was really dirty. So I ran it through my VPI and the played it and it sounded pretty good but I figured since it was so dirty maybe a spin through a friends Audio Desk would be in order so I went over we listened to it then ran it through the Audio Desk and honestly I couldn't hear a difference. That was on a Gyrodec with an Quintet Black MC cart. Fantastic setup by the way. So I was pretty disappointed. To me the advantage of ultrasonic machines is time and mess. It was a much simpler process and took half as much time. Which is definitely really nice.

 

Although $4k is a large number it is one I would consider if I thought the benefit was there for the amount I have invested in vinyl. But there are a number of reasons I why I haven't pulled the trigger on ultrasonic:
1) The incredible results I get with my VPI 16.5 cleaning regimen.
2) This isn't the first time I've seen someone question how much better ultrasonic is over other methods.
3) I've seen more than one instance where users have had to send them back after only about 18 months of use or so.

For now I have much better uses for my audio $$.

 

I built my own ultrasonic cleaner and it works well. (approx. $250 invested--used ebay tank) The improvement after cleaning varies, depending on the record. I do get noticeable improvement most of the time, however the improvement is not usually "dramatic". I still use wood glue for very "stubborn" deep groove residue or mold issues on older records in combination with ultrasonic cleaning. IMHO, a combination of cleaning methods sometimes works best to get out the most noise possible. Again, damaged vinyl will not magically be restored by cleaning.

 

I have owned a Klaudio RCM since December 2014 and my experiences with it have been very positive. However, the vinyl that I have cleaned on it has been Mint or Near Mint and free of damage. As I posted elsewhere, I have U.S. pressings from every era that play with a complete absence of surface noise following a cleaning on the Klaudio. Turnaround's description in an earlier post is very accurate in terms of the improvements you should hear.

Your turntable however, with respect, is not really high end and I wonder what stylus profile your Ortofon Cartridge has?. I use a Lyra Skala and this, due to its stylus profile I imagine, reduces surface noise dramatically ever before Ultra Sonic Cleaning. I always recall during the early 1990s bringing a U.S. Elektra pressing of a Lonnie Mack album to a friend's house. He was using a Linn Karma cartridge at the time and it sailed through that disc without a hint of a crackle or a pop .. even though and get this, it was had extensive non-fill/beading etc. !!! That brought home to me how important the profile of your stylus is in the elimination/suppression of surface noise. Lyra cartridges do a very good job in suppressing, if that is the correct word, surface anomalies. It played horribly on the system I had at the time.

The thing about analogue is that the more you spend on a turntable/cartridge, it seems, the less you have to worry about surface noise. I have cleaned records for people where the condition was say VG or VG+ at best and which had obvious surface marks showing evidence that they were not carefully handled by a previous owner. Discs like that, which have been damaged through careless handling, will be improved certainly by the Klaudio or Audiodesk machines, but damage is damage and there is no cure for that, unfortunately. Of course, there is always a possibility that you received a defective sample of the Klaudio machine but you are so lucky to be located in the same general geographic area as the manufacturer! I shudder to think what I would do if I ever have a problem. The Klaudio machine will greatly improve top condition/new vinyl and will eliminate noise where that noise is the result of contaminated grooves etc. If the noise is due to bad vinyl/shoddy pressing quality, then the situation is different. I recently acquired a new copy of 'Red House Painters (Rollercoaster)' which was reissued on vinyl in August. One side has continuous loud crackle. The Klaudio reduced the noise slightly but since the defect is in the GZ Vinyl pressing itself nothing can eliminate it. The Klaudio will work very well on good quality, well cared for top condition vinyl.

 

Maybe your cleaning regimen was sufficient and the there was not much more the ultrasonic could do. Just a thought.

I don't think the ultrasonic machine (in whatever variation/model) is the be all that ends all. If I have a really dirty record, I'll use several methods (wood glue possibly and VPI 16.5) before I run it through the ultrasonic.

I have the KLaudio and it's an excellent machine, but I think some of the audiophile magazine reviews for it and the Audio Desk were over the top.

 

Probably was a sufficient regime. Don't get me wrong though. If I had 300 or 400 records I liked to listen to I would definitely be willing to spend the extra 2500 dollars for the Audio Desk for the speed and convenience. If I buy three used records, and I don't get them from some place cool like this forum or a store where they'll clean them for you, I'll spend about 30 minutes setting up and cleaning and them and putting them into new sleeves. That is if they are not filthy or nicotine stained. If that is the case you can double that time to an hour. I can totally see an ultrasonic machine being worth it for a really big collection. Hopefully in another 10 years I'll be in a place, and have enough great records, where I can justify the expense.

 

30 minutes to an hour spent cleaning on a VPI will probably better an ultrasonic clean.

 

Gem Dandy beat the heck out of my Nitty Gritty (which I still use to dry the records) with it's heavy water pressure.
It's not the most convenient, but it's the only cleaner I've ever used that's given me such a huge improvement - although the VPI and Nitty were great.

 

I agree with the suggestion that some of the solution (sorry!) is best approached through careful attention to your system, not the vinyl. A solid, non resonant deck with a smooth cartridge and speakers with a well-judged treble can make a huge difference. Records which seemed noisy suddenly sound surprisingly quiet. This suits me because I find vinyl cleaning very, very, tedious, and i'd rather listen to music. Many records are just fine without the use of an rcm; this is heresy I know, but I have a Loricraft and use it less and less. Just keep that stylus clean....

 

Ultrasonic cleaners are not a panacea for perfectly clean records. I view ultrasonic cleaning as just one step of several that I use to get the results everyone wants. I pre-clean vinyl before putting them into the ultrasonic, this loosens the grime. the cycle times in the KL audio and Audiodesk are too short for this and often little or no improvement is made w/o pre cleaning first. after a long bath the US machine (15-30 min at 45°C) I finish rinse and suck off the loose debri with a Loricraft RCM. The VPI, nitty gritty and record doctor would work well for this also.

 

Appreciate the responses! Klaudio received my RCM this morning and will check it out to see whether or not it's working properly. If I get a working unit back and I determine after testing on my new TT setup that the Klaudio does at *least* as good a job as the VPI, then I'll probably keep it just for the convenience factor (the 3-step AIVS process I was using with the VPI takes 15-20 minutes per record and is obviously pretty labor intensive). I will probably keep the VPI around as well for particularly tough pressings, although I'm not above giving up on a pressing and going through a few to get to one that's decent (I've got a sizable donate/trade in pile going...)

 

You've got that exactly right! I would never abandon my VPI HW-17F RCM, either. I have had excellent results with Vinylzyme on badly soiled records using the VPI. Ultra Sonic Cleaners are a great advance, in my opinion, but they do not supplant the need for brush/vacuum cleaners like the VPI, Keith Monks, Loricraft etc. I think both types of cleaning machines compliment each other quite well. I visited a friend here in Ireland during the Summer and brought my Klaudio with me to clean some of his LPs. It turns out that he has an original U.K. first pressing of the Beatles 'White Album' which had quite a lot of mold and embedded particles, but otherwise NM. It hadn't been played in years and he got it from a work colleague at the time (1967 or so) in London, England who just did not like the album! A single full length cleaning cycle on the Klaudio didn't do a great job, I'd have to say and some of the particles remained. That is where the VPI and similar machines (using enzyme cleaners) come in and compliment the Ultra Sonic machines. Unfortunately (from a cost perspective), it seems that you need both types of cleaning regimes!