Any Four Guys Could Have Been The Monkees Myth Debunked!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by FredV, Oct 6, 2015.

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  1. rjp

    rjp Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    if stephen stills parents had sent him to a good dentist........................
     
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  2. elaterium

    elaterium Forum Resident

    A strange topic without the punctuation.
     
  3. Helmut

    Helmut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Germany
    "Any four guys" is definitely wrong, cause there was no success without talent in those days - unlike today, where we are confronted with so called "it-girls", who are famous for just being famous.
    I would dare to say, that four "other" guys might have also been that successful, cause success is often more depending on the Zeitgeist and the public demand. And that was high in those days when it came to bands. Most kids dreamed of being in a band and this show delivered food to those phantasies.
    So any well produced series about a Beatles-like band had huge chances to become successful in those days, no matter who was in it.
    But the combination of the chosen four worked fine, they did a great job and really filled their roles by even writing some own tunes. So what? It's good as it is.
    In a certain way every band is a casting act, but in most cases the casting director is called "founder of the band".
     
  4. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

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    There might be something by them I haven't heard, but I have heard a couple of their albums without professional songwriters and studio pros, and I was greatly disappointed with them. I am a Mike Nesmith fan and like the First National Band and his songwriting.
    I just didn't hear anything by the Monkees outside of the corporate machine created stuff that had anything to offer.
     
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  5. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Love the Monkees music. Love Head. Find some entertaining stuff about the TV show and agree it was groundbreaking in many respects.

    But, as actors they are IMO about at the level of those Not Ready For Prime Time Players who never advanced to successful careers outside of SNL. Sure they could do some improv and make you laugh, but they really could not create believable characters that you cared about.
     
  6. vamborules

    vamborules Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT
    George Burns was breaking the fourth wall in the '50s.
     
  7. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Marx Brothers 1929. Heck Chaplin was kind of doing it in Kid Auto Races at Venice 15 years before that, and it was a lot more of a feat without sound.
     
  8. mBen989

    mBen989 Senior Member

    Location:
    Scranton, PA
    "Facts, Hercule, facts! Nothing matters but the facts. Without them the science of criminal investigation is nothing more than a guessing game."

    Myth #1: Radio airplay and record sales drove ratings
    Fact: The Monkees did not finish in Nielsen's top 30 either season (the 2nd season airing against Gunsmoke probably didn't help much)

    Myth #2: TV ratings drove record sales
    Fact: "Last Train to Clarksville" debuted on Billboard's Hot 100 at #67 on September 10, 1966. "The Royal Flush", the first episode of The Monkees, aired two days late (September 12)
     
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  9. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

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    If that had happened, he right now would likely be viewed as an aging teenage pop idol instead of one of the worlds more creative rock musicians.
     
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  10. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

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    Lawrenceville, NJ
    And Micky would be doing shows with a guy with less of a voice left than a Peter Tork has
     
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  11. monkees paw

    monkees paw Active Member

    Location:
    Southport CT


    Now that's comedy!
     
  12. BadJack

    BadJack doorman who always high-fives children of divorce

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Oh? Name these couple albums; I'd love to check them out.

    The only album that fits your description came out in 1996. But yeah, I don't like that one either.
     
  13. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    Elvis could have been one of The Monkees.
     
  14. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

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    All this proves is that the Monkees had die hard fans who would buy anything they did. Just like the Elvis Vegas era fans.
     
  15. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

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    I don't remember the names. It has been a while back and was so horrid I put them away and never listened again. I still have them around here somewhere.
     
  16. BadJack

    BadJack doorman who always high-fives children of divorce

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    No, I don't think you do because no such album exists (except the aforementioned 1996 album, "Justus", which doesn't count for this discussion). "Headquarters" comes the closest and that still had Boyce/Hart and Mann/Weil contributions. Its successor, "Pisces", was primarily a session rhythm section with Nesmith on guitar and Tork on keys, with most songs coming from outsiders. Even "Head" had two Carole King songs.

    If you find this music horrid, fair enough but your facts don't hold up.
     
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  17. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    The Beatles could have been The Monkees but not the other way round,right ! ;)
     
  18. Dr. Pepper

    Dr. Pepper What, me worry?

    I think all four of these individuals had a lot of talent in a lot of different areas to offer. I mean they gave the Beatles a run for their money by putting out four albums in succession that all went to #1. As for Michael Nesmith, his creativity all over the boards was and is unmatched by anyone I can think of.

    This month Michael Nesmith is bringing a 40 year long project to fruition that has brought us an amazing trilogy of albums, The Prison 1974, The Garden 1994, and The Ocean 2015 that are each basically soundtracks accompanied by a separate short story with interconnecting overarching themes, all written by Michael. The longest and most creative musical undertaking that I can think of in the history of modern music. For this feat alone Mr. Nesmith deserves all the accolades and respect that the music industry and fans can possibly give him. The sad truth is very few will ever know about this wonderful musical achievement, but at least some of us on this forum will see, hear, and understand this unique milestone in music history.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
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  19. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

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    In other words, when others disagree with you and will not jump through hoops just because you demand it, then they are wrong.
    How very schoolyard of you.
    And Head is one of them. Big deal, it had a couple songs by someone else. It was still an attempt by them to shed the industry pros.
    Which, they obviously desperately needed.
     
  20. MarkTheShark

    MarkTheShark Senior Member

    In 1969-70, they went back to the vaults and pulled out a lot of the more pop-oriented stuff recorded earlier in the run which hadn't been released. It made no difference. No one was listening. For the final album, they brought in Jeff Barry, who had been behind the final Kirshner sessions and had produced "I'm A Believer" and "A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You." That album, Changes, missed the charts completely. Their commercial success was chained like an anchor to the promotional machine. When the Monkees were considered "hot" again for their 20th anniversary in 1986, their albums were reissued in the US for the first time and Changes made the charts as a Rhino reissue. I think a big part of that had to do with its (then) status as a "rare" album. "Rare" doesn't necessarily mean "good."

    Kirshner did some good work, assembled a lot of heavy-hitters and got results, though he did lose the plot after a while. Boyce & Hart, Goffin & King, Neil Diamond, etc. all contributed great material. When the individual Monkees stepped up to the plate the results weren't always magic, but I think Nesmith in particular contributed some of the best songs they ever recorded. But it didn't make any difference. No one was listening.

    They're not for everybody. That's okay.

    Could it have "worked" with four other people? Probably, for a little while.
     
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  21. BadJack

    BadJack doorman who always high-fives children of divorce

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    The only thing I disagree with is that your statement isn't factually accurate. I'm perfectly happy that you don't enjoy these albums and will even admit that Goffin/King are better songwriters and Tommy Tedesco a better guitar player than Peter Tork. I really don't want anyone jumping through hoops on my account.
     
  22. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    Nesmith wrote twenty songs featured on Monkees albums and five single sides released during his tenure from 1966-70. He was a pop music gamechanger from Monkees day one until he left the band in 1970.

    Micky wrote eight album tracks and three single sides from 1967-71, including a UK #2 hit (not a single in the United States).

    Peter wrote seven album tracks from 1967-68.

    The Monkees isn't a case of a band desperately needing outside help.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
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  23. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    The Monkees music resonates with young folks at their 2015 performances because of the band's exceptional musical quality. Same with Elvis entire career: he brought in new fans by being an exceptional performer with great songs.
     
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  24. 905

    905 Senior Member

    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Elvis would have made a great bass player for a band if he wasn't Elvis.
    I could see Elvis on bass so Peter could concentrate on guitar and keyboards.
     
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  25. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

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    It resonates with them because it is great nostalgia music, and it is of exceptional quality. Some of the best ringers comprised of songwriters, studio musicians, and producers in the business were involved in much of the music.
    Lets not forget, the Monkees was a contrived band. The fame was as much based on mass marketing skills and wonderful management as it was the smiling faces they hired to fill the roles.
     
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