Reel-to-reel tape is the new vinyl

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Brian Gupton, Oct 8, 2015.

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  1. BurgerKing

    BurgerKing Forum Resident

    They're out there. I have a friend who's deep into R2R and has developed connections with a few sources with access to many of the "classic" titles a step or two from the master. He routinely pays $1000-1500 per title, but swears it's nirvana and worth every dime
     
  2. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    Regarding the "Basement Tapes" recordings. Can you believe that they were able to restore them as well as they did from those lousy "Shamrock" brand recording tape masters? Shamrock brand was a cheap budget "factory seconds" brand that was a couple of bucks for a 1200 ft reel and was noisy and just plain awful.

    I guess that Mr. Hudson just ran down to his local Wards or Sears store and bought the cheapest crap tape that he could find not realizing the tremendous history that would eventually come from these sessions.
     
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  3. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I am going to hold out for something more expensive and less convenient
     
  4. Gramps Tom

    Gramps Tom Forum Resident

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Many good points presented. Invest some time at Tapeheads.net for education, anecdotes, and a wealth of guidance.

    R2R tape has many attractive qualities:

    1-Nostalgic.

    The format's origins are the 1930's in Germany. The initial magnetic commercial tape machines and software were developed by AMPEX (Bing Crosby was the finance & genius at the company's birth) in the late 1940's. The initial pre-recorded releases were in 1948.

    2-Coolness.

    R2R has had an air of aristocracy about it. Not everyone has one. It was financially out of reach for the average person. The ability to actually record radio broadcasts and records (mixes were not common of course) for playback whenever the owner wanted. Radio was much more relevant, and delivered live concerts, so the audio was definitely cuts above the norm if you had the associated component equipment, which was really costly. The console stereos with the built-in tv's were priced all over the map, but components were in another galaxy price-wise.

    3-Sonics

    Man-o-man, that sound delivered a depth and quality of sound that's not easy for me to describe in any other terms. Of course, the recording/playback is only as good as the source, which is why I checked out of R2R from the early 1980's until gettin' back into it since 2002. Got out because the sources (records) had gotten so poor in production, plus cassettes were lower quality but more convenient and car-friendly. CD's had become the standard, also.

    OK, in the early-late 1970's, I used a portable MAGNAVOX 7" deck I bought at a garage sale for $15 in '73. Manual switches, drive belts internally, 3 motors, and speakers I could activate if I wanted. That unit served me well, and lent it to a college roommate to produce a demo for a radio dj gig, which he got, leading him to a network TV anchor position upon grad.

    After college, went to the Pioneer RT-707 (2 machines at varying pts) and eventually RT-701, which I still use currently. These units are built like Panzers; very heavy, 3 motor direct drive (the only belt is the counter), and the internal electronics are truly first-rate. NEVER a second's worth of trouble-not even an indicator lamp.


    4-Software

    Pre-recorded tapes, in my limited experience (because it took me buying about (4) tapes, cassette & r2r, to discern factory tapes sounded much worse than records), sucked. 3.75 IPS on basically Radio Shack quality tape stock......

    HOWEVER, the major blank tapes DELIVER exceptional sound! I am still utilizing 40+ year old MAXELL UD 35-90, AMPEX 631, and TDK Audua reels without so much as a dropout. Also some newer QUANTEGY 457 and 407 formulas. They can be acquired readily via aftermarket sellers-EBAY and such. They don't have to cost $50/reel...The going rate when I checked in the spring was $8-15/ea for used like I listed above, plus some SCOTCH formulas.


    IF you do decide to wade into this pool, you don't need to swim directly to the deep end right away. Get a dependable unit at a price point you can live with (recent Ebay completed sales for the Pioneer RT-701 range from $150-300) . Quality used 7" tapes go for $6-10 typically. At this point, you should be able to still make rent.

    If this initiative moves you, then you can upgrade as you want, and you'll pretty much get your money back.

    DO be careful when buying tapes, as there is a really bad condition known as Sticky Shed Syndrome (SSS), that means that the polyster and/or back coating flakes off while playing, and will wreck havoc on the tape path and could damage sensitive heads. Acquaint yourself with this issue b/4 buying blank tape. I have experienced this with some SCOTCH formulas (the worst offender).

    Just sayin'.....Hope you decide to follow through and your experience is as positive as mine has been.

    All the best,
    GT
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
  5. triple

    triple Senior Member

    Location:
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Well said. I guess most of us had these (not neccessarily R2R related), at least the ones who care about the sound.
     
  6. Daedalus

    Daedalus I haven't heard it all.....

    I have My Teac X2000R out for repair. I acquired a nice collection of classical, opera and some rock tapes. The tapes sound terrific like vinyl but w/o pops and clicks, etc.
     
  7. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Maybe if I win the lottery jackpot I could get into R to R...
     
  8. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Youd better cancel that order for the Garrard and sell all those records...:D
     
  9. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I think there are two very different and very segregated worlds of R2R, both are being discussed here but the distinction is being blurred.

    One is the "vintage" side of things, the old consumer machines, the nostalgia side.

    The other is the high-end/pro-audio side of things.


    If you want to get a vintage consumer deck for the nostalgia factor and cool looks, go for it, it won't break the bank. Just don't have any misconceptions about what you're getting into. A good vinyl rig will handily own any deck at it's best.


    If you want to have the ULTIMATE audio experience - and I do mean ultimate. Then yeah, it will take some investment and software will be limited but you'll never hear anything quite like it.


    Are you not sure if you like the sound of tape? Tape doesn't have a sound. Nearly everything you've ever heard has been recorded on tape. So you've been hearing tape all your life, x generations and format changes away, but tape nonetheless.


    There is nothing quite like threading up a well recorded dub a generation or two away from the master. Yes there are generational losses but in comparison to the losses inherent to mastering plating and pressing an LP, or digitization, those losses may be preferable to you. In my experience, 45rpm LPs most closely approximate the sound of a good tape copy. But much less expensive!


    And sometimes, if you're really lucky, the original master turns up. Just doesn't get better than that, short of cloning the artist and inviting them to perform in your listening room. :)



    Tape can not and will not be the new vinyl. The thing vinyl always had going for it was its cheapness and ubiquity. It's both a miracle and a blessing that we can derive such high quality sound from the format, buy most things inexpensively, and have a very small list of things which aren't on the format.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
  10. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    I bought an Otari deck to use at audio shows. I figured that there are times when I need to pay attention to a customer, and cannot afford the time to carefully play only my favorite tunes on various LP records, my favorite format. So I recorded favorite tunes back-to-back and what happened was the tape sounded VERY close to the original records' sound, AND to my ears BETTER than CD.

    Then, I discovered RTR tape can sound MUCH better than LP. I found tape copies on Ebay that are supposedly directly copied from a studio master -- and they sound like it. And the Tape Project tapes are amazing, as well as tapes from Opus 3 studio masters (from Sweden).

    So the Otari has been VERY good for my show displays. And just a lot of fun.
     
  11. vinylman

    vinylman Senior Member

    Location:
    Leeds, U.K.


    This. The first thing I did when I got my RTR was transfer all my BBC sessions (various artists) to tape. A very modest machine (Realistic TR-3000) but I was lucky enough to get two decent-sized batches of Maxell tape cheaply. They sound great. Funnily enough, although I've had the machine for around five years (and have it serviced every 18 months at a cost of around £60), I've never had the slightest desire to buy any prerecorded tapes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
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  12. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    Does anyone else wonder about the legality of these "reel copies off masters" that aren't sold by a label (e.g., The Tape Project, Opus 3, etc.)? It seems to me that if it isn't sold by someone who has a contract with the copyright holder to duplicate and sell the item that it is essentially a bootleg.
     
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  13. TommyTunes

    TommyTunes Senior Member

    You cannot exist on only recorded reel tapes but having a small collection of tapes and a very good Reel setup will give you a reference of what the rest of your system is capable of providing. Almost every well done tape (and not every tape is good) I have sounds significantly better than either the record or cd
     
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  14. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Well, I know part of the cost of Tape Project tapes is the royalty to studio and artists. That is part of the negotiation with the studio when Tape Project gets the tape from them. It is also the reason Tape Project is only authorized to make a fixed number of copies.

    OPUS 3 is another story because the master tapes are being duplicated by the same owner/ company. But definitely the royalties to the artists are also included in the cost consumers pay.
     
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  15. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Built like a tank and I almost got one back in the day ... :righton:
     
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  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Looks much better than it sounds.
     
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  17. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    I think you misunderstood; The tape Project, Opus 3, etc are clearly the legitimate sources. I'm referring to something like post #51 above, paying $1000+ to "connections with a few sources" in the recording industry
     
  18. Pinknik

    Pinknik Senior Member

    Which are, as you say, very expensive bootlegs.
     
  19. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    I still don't understand. How is this even close to a bootleg. It appears to me to be another commercial release, in merely another format and quality level.
     
  20. RonW

    RonW Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Expensive venture for sure but well worth it for those who can afford this end of the hobby. I would buy a Revox A77 model with Dolby C and then forget about everything else. I would buy BASF or high end Maxell tape to go.
    Crown decks are also some of the best and quite pricey. Built like tanks. They are out there.
     
  21. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Is Quantegy a spinoff from 3M, i.e. Scotch?
     
  22. RonW

    RonW Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Unknown to me but I've heard the name so many times now. I'm thinking it could be a 3M product.
     
  23. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Quantegy was created when another company purchased both ampex and 3M's magnetic tape business, so all the ampex magnetic products switched over to quantegy branding but remained pretty much identical. I think this changeover happened around 1995-1996ish.
     
    2xUeL likes this.
  24. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    Really?? Something you pay $1000 or more for, that you have to get from a "contact" of an industry insider? That's not a commercial release; can you buy it? Can I? Is there any evidence that the copyright holder is recompensed?
     
  25. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Senior Member

    It's like déja vù all over again. 50 years ago, R2R was touted as the superior format, provided it was 7 1/2 i.p.s.
     
    The FRiNgE and Gramps Tom like this.
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