So what sounds better then? Moving Magnet or Moving Coil?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by The Good Guy, Sep 25, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Vernoona

    Vernoona Well-Known Member

    a properly loaded LOMC is unbeatable for me. much more detail than the MM carts that I've tried.
     
    David Ellis likes this.
  2. David Ellis

    David Ellis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cheshire, UK
    Unfortunately it depends on many variables. A cheap MM cartridge on a great arm and TT will sound far better than a fabulous MC in a poor arm and TT. However if the arm can hold the cartridge well enough in the groove of a record played on a good turntable through a quality phono stage then it's MC hands down.
    I've just decided after owning two 20x2H's to go for the 20x2L as I believe I now have the equipment to get the best out of it. But I see no reason, and I have listened, to move from the 20x2 as it appears to be IMO the best at my price point and most, though not all, of the guys at my dealer agree.
     
  3. Nottocaluap

    Nottocaluap New Member

    I am going through this transition at the moment so have a few things to say. I recently used an Ortofon Vivo red and was really pleased with it for the first few hundred hours.

    After that I started to get a bit picky about it and felt that it was never as good as it should be.

    I think a lot of this is to do with my expectations based on the amount of money I had spent.

    This has often been a factor in my musical enjoyment.

    For example, I once owned a Gyrodec SE with an RB300 and a Denon DL-103 and never enjoyed it but all I could think of was how much I had spent on it and how it was not living up to its price tag.

    I then found one of those stone Trio turntables in a skip and loved it from the first time I heard it as I had no expectations of it and this helped considerably.

    Anyhow, maybe this is true, maybe not, maybe it was just my imagination.

    Back to the cartridges though.

    The diamond fell off of my Vivo so I was stuck with no music until I realised that I had this old Realistic R47 EDT in a box with a Shure stylus on it.

    I thought, what the hell, lets play with it and stuck it on to my Pro-ject RPM6.

    After a little fiddling around I sat back and listened and there it was again, the happy zone and I wondered why I had not used this all along as it blew the Ortofon away with ease !

    I had a peek at the tip on the stylus and it was okay, a little worn but good enough.

    So where is the truth in all this ? Is it what we expect for the price or is it really a case that the moving coil can be a bit of a snake oil product that is expensive so audiophiles can feel good about their gear ?

    I still do not know but one thing I do know is that I will be sticking with this moving magnet as I have just ordered an upgraded stylus for it and am keen to see what this can do.

    I have it playing now on my Pioneer PL-L1000 with Klaus Schulze Timewind as my record of choice and it sounds huge, exciting and best of all, pop free :)
     
    Old Rusty and 33na3rd like this.
  4. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    I prefer DJ carts:p
     
  5. Louis Kirsch

    Louis Kirsch Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rolesville, NC
    I've had both. And prefer the MC for the very reasons stated. The treble is more detailed and for me the mids and bass are punchier. Now at the same time my comparison was an Ortonfon 2m Black compared to my Benz-Micro HOMC and my ClearAudio Symphony LOMC. The MC is very dependent on a good phono stage where you can really play with the load. I spent many an hour playing with the dip switches until I got it right. But then that's the fun of this crazy hobby right?
     
  6. It's all in the loading! MC carts are killer with the right loading. High frequency problems? Not with the right loading. Exactly the opposite in fact. I tamed the digital nasties on Doug Sax's digital file sourced vinyl cut of Dolly's down home effort The Grass Is Blue. It's all here in my LP review.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
    33na3rd and Gramps Tom like this.
  7. I'm hooked on the Denon DL-110 HOMC. On my Luxman PD-284, it just seems to do everything right.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Raylinds

    Raylinds Resident Lake Surfer

    I like a lot of detail, so I prefer MC, but as others have said, it must be set up just right with the proper loading. My AMR PH-77 phono stage allows you to change the loading on the fly with remote control and the differences between the different settings can be fairly dramatic.
     
    jupiterboy likes this.
  9. trip1

    trip1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Saint John, IN
    If any one has the Dynavector DV20XL MC with Pure Audio GCPH phono stage, could you add your settings here.
     
  10. Whoopycat

    Whoopycat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Des Moines
    I think you mean PS Audio GCPH?

    I will say this about MC and cartridge loading... my Manley Steelhead makes a huge difference. I find that I occasionally need to adjust the loading from record to record based on how much top end there is. For recordings that sound dark and murky, I'll dial it down, and then turn it up for a bright record.
     
  11. trip1

    trip1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Saint John, IN
    [QUOT
    You are right, PS Audio GCPH

    ="Whoopycat, post: 13151298, member: 55314"]I think you mean PS Audio GCPH?

    I will say this about MC and cartridge loading... my Manley Steelhead makes a huge difference. I find that I occasionally need to adjust the loading from record to record based on how much top end there is. For recordings that sound dark and murky, I'll dial it down, and then turn it up for a bright record.[/QUOTE]
    your c
     
  12. Mike66

    Mike66 Active Member

    Location:
    Kent England
    I had an Ortofon MC10 mounted in my SME 3009/Thorens TD 160 but quickly went back to a Shure M95 ED. I found the moving coil a bit thin and slightly aggressive.

    These days I am clinging onto an old Ortofon VMS30ii which I consider to be by far the best I have ever used.
     
  13. Peter van de Beek

    Peter van de Beek Forum Resident

    I used to have some MM cartridged. First the old Ortofon and later an MM from Clearaudio. I think it was the Beta Wood. Wow, what a nail it had under it. Never again for me.

    Then I got a Denon DL-304 what was more delicate, but still not great. I got a different Head-amp for that and that made a huge difference. Now I'm on an AT33 MC-cart. When your Phono-amp is all right (and your tonearm), I would say some of the AT33's who are for sale now. It's so much nicer to your in detail and not as slow as most MM's out there.
     
  14. Nottocaluap

    Nottocaluap New Member

    An update on the R47 EDT. The new stylus arrived and it is amazing ! The difference it makes is night and day. I bought the $30 stylus and there is an $80 and $130 option so I can only imagine how good they would sound !
     
  15. bags

    bags Forum Resident

    Location:
    Near Boston
    MC in general, but for bass slam and dynamics a good MM like a Denon 103 can do the job nicely. In my case with a Souther (clearaudio) arm bass isn't paramount, it's tracking and the magic found in the mids/highs. A really good phono pre (for low/mid output models) can cost a great deal so factor that in.

    I think a friend is going to lay a Koetsu Rosewood on me, I think I'll have it re-tipped and have it go head to head with my Shelter 501, blowing through 300 LP's over a year to test them up sounds like a plan.
     
  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Sorry, the Denon 103 is a moving coil cart. Better check your settings.
     
    LeeH likes this.
  17. Just for kicks I decided to try an Empire 2000 MM cartridge with an aftermarket elliptical stylus on my Lux table & holy smokes, what a sweet combo. So both MC & MM carts sound terrific on this table. Guess it all boils down to taste...

    [​IMG]
     
  18. utahusker

    utahusker Senior Member

    I've had a little change of heart since this post. I've been using a Denon 301 MKII loaded at 1000 Ohms, and I'm very happy with it. Much more holographic and rich sounding than the Shure.
     
  19. 808_state

    808_state ヤマハで再生中

    1k loading was the way to go with my Zyx R50 Bloom lomc...not horrible at 100 but the mid and top end detail just kept improving and the noise/congestion dropped off as I went up (using some of the new Gary Numan and Bowie reissues) . I'm currently using an iFi iPhono preamp with the full 66 db gain. I may have my stereo preamp (Yamaha C-2) modded for more internal loading and gain options but straight through it the Zyx doesn't sound bad either (the C-2 has a 100 ohm internal load with 64 db gain).

    That being said my AT-150mlx MM on my other deck can really kick out some detail. Once broken in and fitted to the right arm it's an amazing cartridge. I think doing your homework on cart compliance and tonearm mass really pays off.
     
    Daniel Thomas likes this.
  20. dividebytube

    dividebytube Forum Resident

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Moving coil - with the right tonearm / turntable, of course. And then the right step-up device if using a LOMC.

    I really enjoyed my Dynavector 10X5, and my Denon DL-103R, the latter with a step-up transformer, or an Audiosector phonostage that was an improvement of the 47 Labs.


    Having said that, since my "ultra-fi" system has been sold off, I've been returning to the lower-priced MM carts - Nagaoka MP-110, and a Shure MX97xE. Yes they lack detail and finesse compared to MC carts, but there is also something "right" with these MM cars - the midrange seems a touch warmer, and the bass seems to work better with rock music. Yeah, I'm not using a VPI Aries table with these carts, so there is a whole bunch of differences that are accounting for the sound I'm getting. But MM - within its bounds - can also give pleasing results. I don't know if I'm going back to MC - not that the prices they command.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2015
  21. VinylRob

    VinylRob Forum Resident

  22. kauwi

    kauwi Well-Known Member

    Phonosophie P3 + Naim Aro + Dynavector 20xl mk2 + Dynavector P-75 MK II ore Ensemble Phonomaster

    [​IMG]

    Like this Combi an have much fun on ervery time i listen music
     
  23. Lord Rocker

    Lord Rocker Forum Resident

    I'm pretty new to MC having recently found an Ortofon Turbo-1 for very little money. I too have an Ortofon 2M Blue and therefore can provide a direct comparison.

    I use a Clearaudio Nano phono stage and a stock Pioneer PL-550. Nothing too fancy but sounds pretty solid to my ears.

    In comparison to the 2M Blue the MC Turbo I was struck immediately by a sense of depth and widening of the sound-stage - like I'd hit a surround sound switch. My partner picked up on this improvement too and so the MC stayed on for a while. HOWEVER... it soon became apparent that something wasn't quite right. Percussion was now sounding too prominent to a point of irritation - this settled down but still feel that the sound is somewhat less than natural - the foot tapping on Beatles Blackbird sounds like an annoying scratch for instance - sounds like a foot tapping again with the MM. The MC has also quickly developed a weird fault (static clicks) so no longer using it.

    The 2M Blue seems to suit my set up better in that it has the clarity, sense of rhythm and solidity to bass that I like however with less sense of depth that the MC. I feel that the MC is better suited to classical, swing and perhaps laid back jazz. For rock, electronica, pop, hard bop Jazz etc I'd stick with an MM.
     
  24. Meloski

    Meloski I don't roll on Shabbat

    As I knew nothing at the time, I purchased a Lehmann Black Cube Statement on the word of the salesman, that I would be happy that I have it when I upgrade carts in the future. I am currently running a AT440mLA MM cart on my stock 1200 MK II and I like it very much. However I have been thinking that I am ready to discover the LOMC world.
    The candidates are,

    AT33PTG II - http://eu.audio-technica.com/en/products/cartridges/product.asp?catID=8&subID=57&prodID=4500
    AT33EV - http://eu.audio-technica.com/en/products/cartridges/product.asp?catID=8&subID=57&prodID=4071

    Black Cube Statement - https://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/assets/_managed/product/files/EN_Manual_Black_Cube_Statement.pdf

    As I am new to all of this I gratefully ask for your help in understanding loading and impedance for these carts and phono stage. Will they play together nicely?


    Cheers,

    Michael
     
  25. kauwi

    kauwi Well-Known Member

    Before I had used a Rega Planar 2 with RB-250 and Elys (MM), than the P3 + Naim Aro with Phonosophie Chiave, then Denon DL-103 (MC) and actuelly a Dynavector 20xl mk2 (MC) with P3 + Naim Aro

    I like Dynavector 20xl mk2 more then the Denon DL-103 (MC) .... both Systems make fun but the Dyna plays in every Range better than the Denon ... all sounds "easier" with wonderful Drive and a very good Midrange.

    For me Midrange is the most important Range in any System!!!!

    Willi
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine