Who owned or owns a Linn LP12?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Kingof punk1977, Jun 11, 2014.

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  1. The Good Guy

    The Good Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Maybe you should do a You Tube because the hit & miss nature of this Deck is off-putting .
     
  2. John76

    John76 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    The Vinyl Engine has a Linn setup manual that could be downloaded. This thread on the Linn forum is very informative as well with lots of photos done by one of the best setup man in the business.

    http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=9941
     
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  3. GreatTone

    GreatTone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Falls Church, VA
    I have an early Ariston RD11S, and use an AT33EV on my Audiomods arm. I think it sounds great. I've only had the Ariston for a few years now, and it appears to have been well-used (but not abused) before I got it. Mine has the captive bearing, so I don't know if it can ever be changed. It runs great, so maybe it won't be an issue anytime soon, but I'm curious about your bearing wear -- how you noticed it, and where you got the parts to fix it, especially the spindle. I think the spindle is a permanent part of the inner platter on mine. Thx
     
  4. Lashing

    Lashing Well-Known Member

    Linn are good turntables no question. But the hype machine works overtime especially with the Linn "specialists" who will "setup" your tables.

    Linn has done what all high end audio Co's strive to do. They make up ridiculous stories and give dealers huge margin to propagate those stories. Add never ending servicing and upgrades that require a map to navigate. No matter what you do, you will have a made a wrong choice if you didn't employ expert "B" and you used the wrong tonearm with that suspension, cartridge need to be .002 gram different and your springs need an ovrall etc etc etc. Power supply? you need the XYZ dragnella (next month the Optimaximus will be in favor) Its a cash machine for said experts and dealers.

    One of my favorite things is to ask Linn dealers one simple question - if I need all this stuff why did you sell such a terrible table to begin with?

    Buy a boat, it will be less expense. There are several tables using the LINN suspension idea such as Yamaha PF800 and PF1000. They sound great and work.
     
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  5. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken!

    Location:
    U.S.
    I don't believe it is as bad as you make it out to be, but the LP12 is a finicky table (at least mine was), and updating mine from disrepair and 1986 spec was going to be costly and not worth it to me. My current table sounds much better than my LP12 ever did. No doubt someone is quite happy with my old LP12. I think a dealer updated it and kept it for himself.
     
  6. TimB

    TimB Pop, Rock and Blues for me!

    Location:
    Colorado
    I have a Sondek LP12, Valhalla power supply. I used to have an Ittock arm but I always felt it was the dull point so I sold it. Now I have an Itallian unipvot Blue Note on it and has a very synergistic match to the LP12. My only gripe is that the unipivot does not sound good with the Shue V15v cartridge, my various mc cartridges sound great with this set up.
    I have had an Oracle and a Rega P25 table, and I really miss the Rega, less fuss and worked great with the Shure cartridges . I might sell the Linn someday and go back to a Rega, but for now I am ok with it.
     
  7. ceedee

    ceedee Forum Resident

    Location:
    northern england
    average turntable based on a 1950s design. overpriced. aimed at people who think expensive translates to good.
     
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  8. Chazro

    Chazro Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Palm Bch, Fl.
    I've owned my LP12/Ittok/Lingo since '90. I've read so much about how 'finicky' they are, I guess I lucked out, I've had mine periodically tuned up over the years but outside of that, it's worked flawlessly for 25 years! I went to a demo when the Keel upgrade was introduced. It was so ridiculously expensive, I expected to hear greatness. The shop had 2 LP12's ( 1 with the keel, 1 without) for the demo. There was an improvement but not one worth thousands of dollars!
     
  9. varyat

    varyat Forum Resident

    Location:
    wheaton,IL,USA
    The 2015 Porsche Turbo is based on a 40 year old design and is overpriced in the opinion of some.
    I would own one in a second if I could afford it.
    Fortunately, I CAN afford a few LP12's which I enjoy very much. Imo, they are much better than good.
    To each their own..
    ATB,
    Mark
     
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  10. MikeyH

    MikeyH Stamper King

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    ..and yet, one of the only pieces of audio equipment that literally sold itself when demonstrated.
     
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  11. ceedee

    ceedee Forum Resident

    Location:
    northern england
    $6000 for a rebadged thorens td150 is a little steep IMO
     
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  12. Oggy

    Oggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cambridge, England

    You read correctly sir! The switch looked very much like a Lingo one.
     
  13. Oggy

    Oggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cambridge, England
    Some interesting comments on this thread, some rather more accurate and truthful than others.

    If you're using any sprung suspension turntable on a wonky floorboard, it may un-settle the suspension and cause the record to jump. In this situation, a wall shelf may be essential.

    A correctly set up LP12 has excellent speed accuracy and stability and if you are inclined, you should be able to tap a playing record and the suspension should travel a good few mm whilst maintaining good tracking.

    Linn have used kiln dried plinths for decades.

    LP12s haven't had overblown bass for 25 years!

    A correctly set up LP12 should maintain great performance for extended periods of use as long as they haven't been abused in transit.

    Going on my rapidly failing memory, retail price of a LP12 was £287 (UK) and £340 some time after the introduction of the Valhalla board.

    A properly set up LP12 of any vintage, will offer good sound quality, unless it has been butchered and sounds far better using the drive belt with correct orientation.

    I haven't compared a LP12 to any other turntables for 20 years, but in the time I was selling, setting up and installing, the Linn was manufactured to a very high standard and with far more consistent quality than most of the alternatives. Linn were / are a precision engineering company used to producing products to military standards.

    The LP12 has been around for 40 years and is probably the most successful, specialist turntable around (ignoring Tecnics SL1200). To give an idea of how small the audiophile market is, Linn have sold over 100 thousand LP12s.

    Oggy.
     
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  14. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    I
    I Purchased mine new in 1982, with ittok and asak. Along with Naim 42/110 and Mission 770,s. It was lovely , but went off it after a while. Had it circused, valhala, lingoe,d. Naim aro(wish i,d kept that.
    When i picked up system from Radfords in Bristol i had 100 mile journey home. Nobody told me to remove the platter.
    I did in the end because i was fed up with clunking away in the back of the car!
    I ask you! They had set the arm at 2.00 grams tracking weight and maximum bias. They work best that way, i was told when i queried it.
    Sp i never heard it properly set up. Linn,s spec on Asak and even now all Linn cartridges is 1.5 to 1.7 . When you over track a cartridge it can sound very flat! Or they were hiding the fact that asaks are poor trackers! Actually they are ok in that department.
    I got rid of it some time ago, although i still play records.
    If i had it today i would set it up properly ie the suspension bounce, and correct arm alignment and it would perform like the thoroughbred it is,
    They are superb, my td150 is superb.
    The Lp12 is very similar.
    All depends on set up.
    I learnt many years how to schieve this as many shops/ dealers leave a lot to be desired!
     
  15. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    I
    I Purchased mine new in 1982, with ittok and asak. Along with Naim 42/110 and Mission 770,s. It was lovely , but went off it after a while. Had it circused, valhala, lingoe,d. Naim aro(wish i,d kept that.
    When i picked up system from Radfords in Bristol i had 100 mile journey home. Nobody told me to remove the platter.
    I did in the end because i was fed up with clunking away in the back of the car!
    I ask you! They had set the arm at 2.00 grams tracking weight and maximum bias. They work best that way, i was told when i queried it.
    Sp i never heard it properly set up. Linn,s spec on Asak and even now all Linn cartridges is 1.5 to 1.7 . When you over track a cartridge it can sound very flat! Or they were hiding the fact that asaks are poor trackers! Actually they are ok in that department.
    I got rid of it some time ago, although i still play records.
    If i had it today i would set it up properly ie the suspension bounce, and correct arm alignment and it would perform like the thoroughbred it is,
    They are superb, my td150 is superb.
    The Lp12 is very similar.
    All depends on set up.
    I learnt many years how to achieve this as many shops/ dealers leave a lot to be desired!
     
  16. Oggy

    Oggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cambridge, England
    That is very sad to hear. A correctly set up, undamaged and properly installed LP12 should offer an extremely enjoyable musical performance. I have owned several and enjoyed them all.

    I was shown how to set up a Linn by an extremely good dealer, went on to work for him and then set up and install LP12s for a number of Hi-Fi shops.

    My first LP12 was installed by my dealer and as I have followed since - the counterweight was removed, the outer platter removed and the inner platter lifted up from the bearing housing (or removed, depending if original packaging was complete). It was common practice to cut a "v" shape in the square polystyrene packaging that covered the inner platter, as delivered by Linn from new.
    This obviously stopped the bearing housing getting damaged and locked the suspension in place, stopping the set up from going off. I personally don't know any dealer (in my time) who didn't do this whilst transporting any Linn turntable, LP12, Axis or Basik.

    As you say, Linn recommends its cartridges track at 1.7g and should have matching anti-skating.

    A number of people over the years have criticised Linn's business of having the dealer install the product in the customer's home, but this was only done to try and ensure optimum performance.

    Linn have done a lot of good for the industry suggesting several methods of retailing that we now take for granted. Selling by demonstration, with a single pair of speakers being in the room the obvious one. Anyone remember the wall of speakers played via a comparator of the '70's?

    The tune dem! In all my years as a music lover, nobody else has come up with a criteria that makes sense to me, that is repeatable in all locations on all equipment for choosing a system, and then installing it for optimum performance. Linn dealers ideally position speakers (not only Linn speakers) for optimum performance, using this criteria. ALL music sounds better with optimally positioned speakers from ANY manufacturer.

    I'm not saying the LP12 is the best turntable, but undamaged and correctly set up and installed, any era of Linn's turntables should perform extremely well and have given me thousands of hours of listening pleasure.

    Oggy.
     
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  17. Gavinyl

    Gavinyl Remembering Member

    The first time I heard one, I just about had an accident in my pants, that was similar to a teenage dream of Brigitte Bardot !
     
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  18. Oggy

    Oggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cambridge, England
    You're showing your age with your "appreciation" of both a LP12 and Brigitte!

    There's a warning sign on the road ahead.....

    Oggy.
     
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  19. chrism1971

    chrism1971 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glos, UK
    That's interesting, that's the first bad word I've read about Radford's on the internet. Most people have a rosy nostalgia about the place, though I must admit they were usually pretty snobbish if you weren't going to buy an LP12.
    Every time I've heard one recently I've thought 'very nice, but very coloured' Compared to a Michell, AVID or the top Projects and Regas (RP8 or 10) it sounds like a comfortable saggy old leather armchair compared to something that's actually going to do your back some good. That's the older or cheaper current models of course. At £10,000 plus for the top ones I wouldn't go near it.
     
  20. royzak2000

    royzak2000 Senior Member

    Location:
    London,England
    I had one for years first one 1982, it was a true upgrade on the Thorens TD160 I had before. Never fussy, it sat happy on a Sound Organisation wall shelf, looked at every few years at cartridge change.
    Very little if any adjustment was ever needed.
    My last one was a beaut. with full Naim makeover, power supply, moving coil stage Aro tonearm etc. Maybe it was the lower bass bloom, that people told me about, that gave me so much pleasure over two decades.
     
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  21. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    Yes
    i
     
  22. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    Yes, i agree completely. The Lp12 gets quite unfairly in my opinion a lot of criticism. As you point out, the company support its products and therefore the audiophile better than most. They keep it updated.
    My main criticism and only one, is the over the top prices , for their products. I suppose thats the reason i no longer use them.

    I sold mine because of poor performance. Some time after this, i started to put my engineering background to practical use , and started to strip down turntables and see what made them tick.
    The dealer would take hours, or days to set up Lp12.
    I could set suspension up in 20 mins! I would leave the bottom off for a week in case it drifted.
    Setting arms vta , vtf, azimuth is the real challenge, but rewards one greatly when the optimum setting is reached.
    Wish i had my Lp12 and was armed with the knowledge i have now.
    I will say that to get audio nirvana, one needs s very hood dealer, or learn the art yourself. Forums like this one if find invaluable, and i would like to thank all who participate, i learn something new every day.
    Long live the Lp12 its still one of the best!
     
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  23. Spikes

    Spikes Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Hague
    Really love my LP12. I started with a Majik LP12 years ago and have upgraded all bits up to the current top version. Setup is very important, so please take your deck to a retailer with LP12 experience. I recently bought a second one, built from all the upgraded bits I had lying around.
     
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  24. Oggy

    Oggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cambridge, England
    I can't remember how many LP12s I've owned over the years, maybe 5-6, one of these I built up from a rather nice black plinth. I can honestly say that none of these fell out of adjustment and apart from the time Linn had a dodgy batch of grommets, all were easy to set up. Some dealers always did and some are still doing a great job offering a great, unbiased service to their customers.

    I should imagine some of the indifferent performance from a LP12 is from over-tightening the top plate damaging the wooden blocks, a rattling top plate and damaged arm bearings from cartridge changes without removing the arm.

    I believe setting up a LP12 without a level jig, is next to impossible - though I did tweak a customers turntable (after they'd moved it with the platter on!) balancing on carefully levelled chairs!

    After a jig, the bolt straightener is essential. After the introduction of this, LP12s were always easier to set up and gave good performance for long periods.

    Everyone should own a Kinky! Well, at least people setting up Linn turntables. (I won't mention bearing straightening tools or P.T!) A strobe, a strobe disc - Linn's is excellent, but (the early ones at least) I believe the cartridge alignment gauge was not as accurate as their stand alone one. A few tools, springs and grommets and a bit of patience - the memories are flooding back!

    Sigh, I now set up printers (or get them to work) for a living, still working to fine tolerances. But, there is nowhere near the satisfaction as handing over a recently serviced turntable......

    Oggy.
     
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  25. HenryH

    HenryH Miserable Git

    I bought my LP12 in 1992, along with a used Akito tonearm and a demo K9 cartridge. Over time I've added the Lingo PS, the Cirkus upgrade, the Trampolin kit, and have upgraded the tonearm to a Naim ARO with an Arkiv cartridge. I'm also quite fortunate to have a very good Linn dealer/turntable guy nearby who has done all of the set up and maintenance for me. I have been quite happy with the performance of the LP12. Rarely do I consider the possibility of an alternative, which in any circumstance would require a fair bit of cash to be worthwhile.
     
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