The Velvet Underground: "Loaded" 45th Anniversary Super Deluxe Box

I've finally had a chance to check out the DVD.

The menu is pretty cool how they separated the artwork elements. I like that.

I still haven't figured out how to rip the 96/24 DTS stream. Well, I ripped it using DVDAE and have read it rips the 96/24 stream intact but you have to find something to properly decode it. Most everything just sees the 48khz core (including DVDAE). Loading into Audcaity only gives me 48khz audio. I'm not having luck finding software on Mac to do this. I'd really appreciate any help if someone knows how this can be done on Mac.

I took the 5.1 (it does have an LFE channel) and made two down mixes. One with the mono channels (center and LFE) reduced 3dbs and one with no reduction. I then level matched to the 2.0 down mix on the DVD and compared them all. IMO, it's what has been suspected, the center channel was not reduced 3 dbs for the down mix. This doesn't cause a major difference, but if you feel the vocals seem too loud, switchover to listening to the 5.1 for a better balance (assuming your player does a proper down mix).

Including the original album in hi-res lossless was a nice touch. I just wish they'd watch the levels. There are a couple of songs where one channel overloads quite a bit while the other is perfectly good. It kind of negates the whole flat transfer thing if you are going to have that. Here's a wave compare of the DVD on top and old CD on bottom. I used spoiler tags for those who don't want to see this stuff.

Spoiler

Interestingly, the album master contains the longer version of "New Age" first heard on Peel/Fully Loaded CD1 (not the even longer version found on CD2 of Fully Loaded). This goes along with my findings of the extended SJ and RnR being 1995 creations, but not New Age. It looks like that was the only track which had a last minute edit for the original release, despite the legend. Possibly more about removing that poorly done edit in the longer version than making the song shorter.

 

How does the flat transfer sound compared to say the original CD?

 

Thanks for your report. I'm thinking the flat transfer didn't level match between channels, which would be proper. They needn't have made it loud enough to clip though. Doesn't iTunes convert 96/24 to lossless if it's set to play HD? One would import the HD and then highlight and convert to whatever setting you choose (WAV or ALAC).

 

I think overall, I like the original CD better. It's just a smoother, more consistent listen. And for some tracks (like Oh Sweet Nuhtin), the DVD is pretty dull sounding. That's not to say the DVD doesn't have it's moments where the detail and lack of EQ don't have something to offer over the CD, but it's a track to track thing. If I was going to listen to the album, I'm putting on the original CD. I do think it does better with a 10-15% shift to the left channel, though. It was sounding a little off when switching back and forth with the DVD, but once I adjusted that, it compared more favorably.

 

I like the balance better on the DVD because it keeps the vocals center. When they adjusted the general balance of the channels for the CD (and maybe original vinyl, haven't compared), it shifted the vocals a little. So with the DVD, you have what looks like one channel way louder than the other, but it sounds better to me because of where the vocals are. But yes, I wish they would've not let it clip.

I haven't messed with the newer iTunes, but the older ones I used would down convert 96khz when I encoded to ALAC. XLD could be used to transfer 96/24 to ALAC and then import that to iTunes and it would accept it. I'm trying to deal with the DTS track, though. I have the PCM tracks converted to wav now and I do have the DTS converted to wav, but the DTS track is a special 96/24 which has a 48khz core stream for backwards compatibility. That lower stream is the one all the software I've tried sees. So it's just a matter of squeezing out a little more quality when creating my own down mix.

 

Agreed exactly on the DVD of the original mix. They did the right thing not rebalancing but didn't need to clip. I had the same issue with the DTS. Please let us know what formula you think is best to deal with the 2015 mix.

 

Sorry you are right I should have said the DVD original mix flat transfer 2.0. My player counts the whole album so I didn't note the time, but within the last 2 minutes or so of the song; it is a pop on the tape or my disc; it jumps out at you.

 

Fascinating -- good sleuthing.

This may be mentioned upthread, but Yule claimed some years back that the removal of the bridge from "Sweet Jane" was a decision made while Reed was still with the band, and with his acquiescence. We'll never know if that's true, but it does look more and more like the shortening of "New Age", at least, was done post-Reed.

 

Yeah, I hear it (@ about 5min). That's a pretty bad glitch. Sounds like two pops with a stutter. Don't know if it's a tape issue or digital corruption. I would think the 45th CD/HD came from the same tape (if not same digital transfer), though, and it's not on there. If it's a tape issue, it's possible it was repaired on the 45th and left as-is on the flat transfer. I'll have to listen and see if I can tell.

 

Lou was still singing the bridge live on the day he quit the band. Doesn't seem like he preferred it being cut.

 

I'm still playing around with it, but will report back when I've settled on something.

Basically, though, you need to reduce the center channel 3 dbs. The LFE also needs reduced 3 dbs, but I still need to listen closer and make sure it should be there for a down mix. The surround channels should probably be reduced also by 3 dbs, but in this situation it's not a hard rule like the center and LFE reductions. In Audacity, in order to avoid clipping once the channels are combined, I used -4 reduction for the front L/R and -7 for the rest of the channels.

EDIT: Am listening to Sweet Jane right now and am pretty sure the LFE should be dropped for down mixing. It sounds like it's just doubling what is already in the front L/R, which is pretty standard but you don't want that in the down mix.

 

Jesus, all I wanted was the DVD, and now I barely want that, outside of the new 5.1 mix.

 

Wow, a bit complicated for me. Wish they could have got the downmix right, as the sound is very cool, but the center is clearly too loud.

 

Absolutely. Anyone can check this out, just go to iTunes or Amazon and switch back and forth between the corresponding tracks on "Disc 6" (the down mix) and "Disc 7" (the original stereo mix). Unless they were trying to emulate the third album, the vocals really are too loud.

 

If you listen to the 5.1 from the disc on a DVD player or software on a stereo setup, you'll most likely be getting the proper down mix to stereo by your player. Now, if you want to make a copy to listen on something else, that's where it gets complicated by needing to create your own down mix if you want it to have a better balance.

 

I checked further into the pop @bmoregnr asked about. Traces of the glitch can be heard on the 45th CD/HD, so this is an issue with the tape, not a digital error. The glitch isn't really a stutter as I said above, it's sort of a dropout with two pops right next to each other (sounds like one, though). They removed the pops on the CD/HD but you can still hear the dropout if you listen closely. I went and checked the old 80s CD and don't hear anything there, but Fully Loaded has the whole glitch with the popping. Never noticed that before. The popping is easily removed without any harm, but I guess being a flat transfer, they left it in on the DVD. I think we would've let them slide if they removed them, though.

 

Thanks for following up on that, tape was my guess, it really put a jolt through me as it was pretty full range for a pop-- it had more bottom end than any pop I can remember-- I am also guessing it was fixed for the CD but since they were going flat transfer for the DVD original 2.0 they left it. I said on the Matrix box thread both the DVD original 2.0 and the 45th CD of the album are great and I have would have no problem listening to either of them on any given day. I find the CD more engaging; both are a great transfer but the CD is thicker, wider, and more holographic-- there is some mastering for sure but none of it mars or gets in the way of the music in my book. All that said if you want flat the DVD Orig. 2.0 will be a treat that one epic pop aside; in fact other tape gnarlies show up on the DVD a bit more if your ears are tuned but hey you wanted flat. It is all good and really turned me around on this box [I love all the others] given the more meh live stuff or lesser number of extra cuts v. the other 45ths.

 

I would still like a stereo SACD from the original master courtesy of MFSL.

 

I was playing some of this tonight and was wondering why the original two day April demo session yielded only songs that didn't make the record, except for Rock & Roll. We know a lot of the other stuff had been written and was being performed live, so why don't we have versions of those from the April demo session? The "early versions"on the box don't have the same sound as the "demos", with the possible exception of Ride Into the Sun, which is listed and crossed out on one of the demo reels shown in the booklet. On the other hand, Love Makes You Feel, which was the only "demo" remixed, sounds more like the "early versions." Were the other demos overdubbed and incorporated into the album? Doesn't really sound like it. Sterling always talked about the "real lost album", which had Sad Song on it. Is this a clue? Shouldn't be really, as they have the original reels. Anyway, some great stuff in those "demos."

 

This going for 44 bucks over at Import cds. Was going to pass but at that price...

 

The simplest way to get a properly balanced down mix would be with DVD Audio Extractor. It's full featured for 30 days and can do it in one step (it does it automatically, no messing with manually adjusting channels). Let me know if you need instructions. It's not the highest quality method and won't give you 96khz, but it should sound fine.

 

I've always wondered about that recording of 'Love Makes You Feel'.
For me it sticks out as something done totally seperate from the rest of the recordings, both the demos and the early versions. Does the new box reveal anything about it's origins? David Fricke barely even mentioned the song in his 'Fully Loaded' liner notes, which fueled my suspicions even more.

 

I haven't read through the whole book, so I don't know if there's anything mentioned in the writings, but the page for disc 3 just says "Demo tracks recorded April 15 & 16, 1970 at Atlantic Recording Studios, New York Produced & Engineered Adam Barber"

There are a bunch of tape boxes and recording sheets, but none mention this track.

 

It sounds like the other rough April demos to me - probably Doug on clumsy drums.

 

Is the DVD original stereo mix Sweet Nuthin the same mix as the CD? They seem to have different endings or at least fadeouts to me. Can someone point me to some info on when that album mix changed; I know of the extended songs, but guess I missed or can’t remember when and why they happened. Thanks.