Pro-Ject 2Xperience SB ?

I am investigating a new table and this one really looks interesting to me as an upgrade from my carbon:
http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=2xperiencesbdc&cat=turntables&lang=en
It just doesn't look like I can get it anywhere in the us.. they only have the 'old' one with the sumiko cartridge.

anyone knows where I can get more info? I tried all the big sites..

 

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PR2XSB

 

Two months ago I bought the earlier version of the model you're asking about - the "2Xperience Classic" (in olivewood with the Blue Point Special No.2 mounted) - and let me tell you why: I already owned a Speed Box S that I had been using with my first Pro-Ject - a 2012 RM 1.3 "Genie". The 2Xperience SB is simply the 2Xperience Classic with a Speed Box built in to the front left corner of the plinth. The only other "upgrade" to the design is the installation of the 9cc Evolution tonearm in place of the 9cc "basic".

You will find all manner of cartridges (mostly Sumikos and Ortofons) factory-mounted to all manner of Pro-Ject tables and I wouldn't let that affect your decision process (especially if you already own a nice cartridge or two). In fact, the first thing I did when I got my 2Xperience Classic home was take off the Blue Point Special 2 and put on my favorite Denon DL-110. But you might find the BPS2 to be a nice upgrade from the Ortofon 2M Red on your Debut Carbon.

The 2Xperience Classic would take you an incremental step up the performance ladder from your Debut Carbon - especially when used with an outboard Speed Box. It has a heavier plinth, better isolation feet, a slightly longer tonearm, a screw-down clamp, and a thicker vinyl-topped platter that needs no mat. I would expect quieter backgrounds, reduced motor rumble, and better bass response when compared to a stock Debut Carbon. Of course, you'd be spending $1500 to replace a $400 turntable. But here's the kicker: since the 2Xperience Classic is now a superseded model, the price is dropping fast. I paid $999 for mine NIB. For me, this was a better deal than waiting and buying a 2Xperience SB since I already had a Speed Box.

Bottom line: you can do like I did and get the "old" 2Xperience Classic for a grand (or less). Or you can drop $1600 for the same turntable (more or less) with the $130 Speed Box built in. They both have the same cartridge (Sumiko BPS2). By my math, I saved myself $470 by choosing the former option instead of the latter.

(but man do those new matte palisander and eucalyptus finishes look nice...)

 

thanks, but its also a different one. The one on the pro-ject site comes with a ortofon silver where this one comes with a sumiko. Otherwhise it looks the same.

 

hmm thanks, good points. I also have a speed box...

 

I heard the 2Xperience SB at the Bristol (UK) show in Feb and was very impressed. Played through a Roksan CD/amp into Acoustic Energy speakers it was extremely musical and imaged superbly, which is pretty good for a £150 MM cartridge. With this deck you can play with different phono cables, though the ones provided are pretty good.
Only downside is the screw on clamp which is a bit of a faff. The demonstrator left it off for ease of changing LPs.

 

http://www.vinylbutiken.com/xDocs/ProJect-2XperienceSBDC-2015Review-HifiChoice.pdf

 

Good! Then you can save a bundle on your upgrade by getting the soon-to-be-discontinued 2Xperience Classic. If you truly have your heart set on an Ortofon 2M Silver then I would recommend you find a dealer who sells the 2Xperience Classic (many to choose from, just use google) and work out a deal where they swap out the Sumiko BPS2 for your dream cartridge the 2M Silver. They are more or less equal in price.

Otherwise, you should just stick with your Debut Carbon and try a cartridge upgrade instead. I have heard rumor that you can upgrade an Ortofon 2M Red (the stock cartridge on most Debut Carbons) to any of the other 2M series models by simply replacing the stylus. Is this true?

 

Also, if you're wondering why Pro-Ject turntables here in the States never seem to have the same cartridges installed that are shown on Pro-Ject's website, here's the backstory (as I understand it): for a long time, Pro-Ject USA was distributed by Sumiko. Lower end PJ TTs came mounted with entry level Sumiko carts like Oysters and Pearls, mid-to-upper end models were sold with Blue Points, Blue Point Special EVO IIIs, and Blackbirds. Then, right around the time the Debut Carbon was introduced (circa 2011?), Ortofon cartridges started appearing on PJ TTs. Ortofon OM series carts on the entry level PJs and RM series on the mid-range models. I am not aware of any MC or HOMC Ortofon carts being sold as stock equipment on Pro-Ject turntables.

 

That seems reasonable. When I bought my Pro-ject 2Xperience Classic (in Mahogany), I believe it came with the Sumiko Blue Point. However, I bought it from Needle Doctor, and I had them swap it out for the AT-OC9MKII that I really wanted. Yes, it cost me the full cartridge price extra, but I'm not in the least sorry for my choice. The AT sounds excellent.

 

Interesting choice. I've never seen nor heard an Audio Technica cartridge on a Pro-Ject turntable. Then again, I'm the only guy I know who likes the Denon DL-110 enough to use it on both of his Pro-Ject turntables!

The takeaway here is that Pro-Ject chooses their cartridges wisely and 90% will likely satisfy any given Pro-Ject turntable owner. The rest of us just take that $500 we saved by not buying a VPI, Clearaudio, or SOTA and use it to finance a cartridge upgrade.

 

I chose the OC9 because it is my first foray into the moving coil world, I have always liked Audio-Technica cartridges for their stereo separation and tracking ability (and the OC9 is excellent in that regard especially for its price), and I had read many, many good reviews about it. Since I bought it from Needle Doctor, they were willing to work with me if I had not liked how it sounded. However, it was very, very good to start with, and now that it has had time to break in, it is both smooth and well defined with excellent bass response and a wide, natural sounding sound stage. All in all, I think it's an excellent combination with the Pro-ject turntable.

 

I just realized I created a fictional cartridge in this thread. There is no "Blue Point Special No. 2". Sorry! There is the Blue Point No. 2 and there is the Blue Point Special (which was originally just a hot-rodded, "naked" Blue Point but is now a unique model currently called the "Evolution" and on at least its third version).

 

thanks, I was just mentioning the silver cartridge as a difference between the two. I understand sumiko wants to sell their own cartridges but it feels like pro-ject wouldn't have chosen the silver if it wouldn't have been better. having said that I would be open to the other cartridge as well, enough folks happy with it.

ill keep my eyes open for deals in the couple of months!

 

Sorry to revive and old thread, but I was also considering upgrading from the Debut Carbon to the 2XPerience SB, and found the info here invaluable.

Audioadviser has some "demo" models on sale. Last night, I ordered a Palisander w/ the BP2 for $999. This is the model with the Speed Box included.

Today, they called to ask if I wanted them to set the tracking force and anti-skating. I almost asked them to do it, but recall it was pretty easy (and a bit fun) on the Carbon, so I declined. They did say they'd have to open the box to do it, so I wonder what "demo" actually means.

I thought it was nice customer service to offer, and also wanted to let you know about this offer.

I'll report back after I receive it and get to play with it.

 

I own one of these with a Dynavector 10x5 fitted. Great looking and sounding TT!

 

I think once these are avalible in the states, they will sell a lot of them.


Pro-Ject 2Xperience SB S-Shape

Top-grade turntable with 9“ S-Shape aluminium tonearm & cartridge




Pro-Ject Xtension 9 S-Shape

Highend turntable with top class 9“ S-Shape aluminium tonearm

 

I used Audioadvisor's free shipping, which is supposed to be 3-5 business days. They shipped it on Thursday (the day after I ordered it), and it arrived today (Saturday). So, it was actually 2 calendar days.

I finally got it set up. It took a while to set the downforce and anti-skating correctly. This table is much harder to set up than the Debut was. I was puzzled for a little while about where to screw in the anti-skating stub. The instructions didn't show clearly. Finally, I found it. It was probably my lack of knowledge. The Debut had the stub already installed.

Anyway, I'm listening now (The Flat Earth by Thomas Dolby - one of the best-sounding rock CDs and LPs I've heard). The BP2 seems much more revealing than the Ortofon Red. It also seemed the Red emphasized certain frequency ranges (I particularly noticed recessed vocals on old Genesis). I'll try Foxtrot or Nursery Cryme next and listen for a difference there.

 

I'm having a problem on a few discs. So far, it's two 12" 45s and one LP. The needle sticks in various places. This did not occur on the same discs on the Debut Carbon. It's probably slight imperfections on the discs. Do I need to increase the downforce slightly? Thanks.

 

@dougotte, did you ever get this figured out? My guess is that the anti-skate to tracking force ratio is off (too much AS compared to tracking force). Do you have a scale for VTF?

 

Yes, I did. After buying a scale, I created a separate thread because at first I thought it was defective. But, once I calibrated it, I was able to use it to determine that the VTF was way too low. After I adjusted it, those discs now play fine. Thanks for asking.

 

@dougotte, good deal! Are you pleased with it as an upgrade to the Carbon or is it not enough of a jump?

 

After living with it a few weeks, I have to admit it's not much of a jump. It's slightly better due to:

1) electronic speed control - but on the other hand, I never noticed any speed problems w/ the Debut;
2) the ability to switch from 33 to 45 without having to remove the platter - but I rarely listen to 45s anyway;
3) the clamp - but I never noticed any slipping issues w/ the Debut;
4) the BP2 is a slightly more revealing and balanced (across the frequency spectra, rather than emphasizing any range) cartridge - but the difference is subtle.

Knowing all these things in advance, I don't think I would have upgraded. But, I'll enjoy it now that I have it.

 

Denver's Listen Up is selling the SB Sgt Pepper version for $799 shipped on ebay.

 

@dougotte do you still have this table? If so, how are you feeling about it? I found an used one with a Ortofon 2m Black on it for about the same price as new and thinking of picking it up. I currently have a Debut Carbon Espirt with 2m Red and looking for another table for another room. Basically is narrowed down to the 2Xperience SB w/ 2m Black vs Rega Planar 3 w/ 2m Bronze.