Mcintosh MC30's...speaker and phono preamp pairings

So I've pretty much settled on a pair of fully restored MC30's as my personal perfect amp. 75% of my listening is 50/60's jazz, vocal, acoustic music. The other 25% is classic rock, a bit of acoustic new age, classic R&B and old funk.

The old funk notwithstanding, I think the MC30's are perfect. The question is, what are my best affordable options for speakers and phono preamp out of the gate? The restored MC30's are going to set me back, so I'm thinking Klipsch Heresy or Cornwalls will pair nicely, and be pretty affordable, particularly if used. Any concerns buying used vs. new? The Cornwalls, in particular, seem a bit expensive new.

My front end is a Rega RP6, and I've heard good things about the Croft Micro 25 preamp, which would also eliminate the need for another preamp. That said, I may want to add a CD player at some point, so I'm open to preamp/phono separates, or suggestions around a nice preamp with a phono stage.

I know I'm asking for a lot of input here, but as I'm sure everyone can relate to...this can be a bit overwhelming, in a fun way!

 

See if you can find a nice pair of used Cornwalls or LaScalas and upgrade the crossovers in them...Crites or ALK Engineering.....you'll be in heaven with the MC30s (I speak from experience).

Nice tube preamp....Eastern Electric Minimax would be sweet!

 

I used mine with Heresies until I got my La Scalas. The both sound great. When the volume is high, the La Scalas really get the air moving. For a pre, I use a MX110z. When I bought it is cost about the same as the Croft. I hardly ever use the tuner on it but the phono section sounds good. I do wish it had a few more inputs though. But that's a problem with many older pres, they didn't anticipate all the modern sources.

Chad

 

My first foray into tubed audio gear was a pr of MC-30's, a MX-110 and a pr of Klipschorns. It took me 3 weeks to negotiate the price down to what a poor college boy could afford (which wasn't much but this was 30 years ago, after all). I had to replace the power tubes in the MC-30's but it was a great-sounding combination and although I had to part with everything but the MX-110 when I left school (Khorns don't fit easily into a '79 Civic), I've missed the MC-30's and have returned to Klipschorns several times since - each time with more severe modifications. Highly recommended and good luck with your system search!

 

Severe modifications... I like that!

 

I keep hearing Tannoy, but know nothing about them...which are my best options to pair with the MC30's in a small room (14x14)? Hoping to keep the speakers at $2500 or less...

 

I would also suggest a pair of Altec 14. It is a very sensitive loudspeaker which would pair well with your MC30s.

The imaging and midrange characteristics of the Mantaray horn of the 14 are exceptionally precise and detailed with incredible realism - especially with jazz.

 

I'll second the Altec 14. They've been getting more difficult to come across in good shape and the price of all Altec Speakers seems to have doubled in the last year or two but you can still grab a nice pair for about a 1000 dollars now and Great Plains Audio can service or replace all your drivers.

Klipsch Cornwall are another great match and easily upgraded.

For the money your looking at you might be able to pull off some vintage Tannoy HPD series. Which are very nice but will usually need a refoam at the minimum. Or a pair of newer Tannoy Prestige series that's maybe a few years old.

 

You can also check out Omega Speakers and Teckton Speakers and Zu Audio Speakers. All good modern high efficiency speakers. They have lots of offerings in your price range.

 

I've never heard Klipschorns, but have heard both Cornwalls and Fortes with all the Crites upgrades powered by a fully restored Fisher 500b and Fisher 400. FWIW I didn't enjoy the sound of either setup.

If I were in your shoes I'd put my $$ into a clean and fully restored MX110 preamp - a perfect match for your MC30's. I would then save some $$ on speakers and find some Wharfedale W90's ($300-$500) and re-cap them with NOS Russian oil caps (available cheaply on eBay). I love my w90s with my Marantz 8b or my MC225 - in my smaller room I prefer them to many other more expensive speakers I've tried. They sound fantastic with jazz, funk and classic rock - something about them just nails the tone and vibe of those old recordings. They are not horn loaded, but are still very efficient and tube compatible. I would imagine the MC30's would be a fantastic match as well.

 

Given your listening preferences, try an outside the box suggestion: Quad ESL. Should be a great match with your MC30 pr. As for a preamp, a MX110 pre would be good, but a C20 or C22 would be better.....

 

Here's my comments as a loudspeaker engineer:
- Speakers don't really age much physically. Yes, ancient foam surrounds can come apart, and down-facing woofers may drift, but that's about it.
- Design technology DOES evolve, however, so much older versions of something like a Klipsch probably don't sound quite as nice.
- Crossovers for horns are tough, especially back in the day before simulation technology, and even with sims. So the advice to look at Crites mods is good advice IMNSHO.
I'd look at a few-year-old set, and spend the differential on upgrading the crossovers. That is, IF you want that kind of sound. Those speakers have a particular sound which can be a love it or hate it kind of thing. AND, while Klipsch has made some updates such as changing to a Tractrix horn, their designs are still rooted in their origins which makes some limitation.

One of the ultimate horn designs can be seen here
http://www.gedlee.com/loudspeakers.htm
well, not seen, it's the base page. Earl Geddes knows a LOT about horns. Others may have different opinions about tradeoffs, but Earl definitely knows about "horn sound" and how to ameliorate it. I would definitely look into this stuff.

Another possibility would be some kind of waveguide kit from Parts Express,
http://www.parts-express.com/cat/speaker-kits/286
but I don't have a specific thing to point to. You might ask at
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/
regarding woofer+waveguide kits. (Parts Express has some inexpensive round-mouth waveguides, compression drivers, and woofers. I'm sure there are good designs for that but I just don't know where.)

 

Yes for jazz vocals specifically the quads would be amazing with the MC30s - but you would sacrifice some bass oomph when it came time to bring the funk! Quads also require some breathing room to sound their best, and a fully restored pair will run you at least $2k - I was under the impression the OP was looking for budget minded solutions. Another reason for suggesting the mx110 - a c20 or c22 would probably be at least double the cost of the mx110.

 

An MX110z would be your best bet. If you can spring it, go for a C20, which from my experience, sounds better that the C11 or C22, it just doesn't look as nice as those later two preamps, and a lot more C20s seem to be out there for sale.

 

I agree with the MX110 recommendation. It's significantly less expensive with 90% the performance of a C20/22 which are essentially the same unit (except C20 has the dreaded 5" volume control), not to mention the "free" MR 67 tuner!

Supply of MX110 keeps prices depressed; had it been manufactured in similar quantity to the others, I suspect it would be selling for double what it is now. MX110 is also the only tuner preamplifier with the chrome chassis which is a nice touch for those who prefer to display their equipment without the cabinet.

MX110 is the single best value in McIntosh tube on the market today, IMHO.

Thanks.

 

Hereseys are light in the bass department. I've got a pair and like them a lot...but then I got a pair of Cornwalls. Updates the Xovers and did some plumber putty tweaks and am very happy with the the results. Cornies cast me $500 on eBay which was a local pickup....in a Nissan Versa. So....don't drive a compact if you are picking them up.

 

I have an MX110/MC225/Altec 846a Valencia. This makes for a really good combo to listen to. I'm sure it would be just a nice with MC30s subbed in.

 

I would advise caution with the Cornwalls/MC30 combo in a room that size. This pairing, while generally having all the potential to sound fantastic, MAY prove to be an overkill in terms of system gain (AND power) in your room, particularly if you use an active preamp with 20dB of gain like MX-110 has. It really depends... You might not be able to utilize the volume control past 9 o'clock -- unless you turned the input trim pots on MC30 inputs down a lot, which IME is not where they sound their best; they tend to sound best and quietest with the pots fully open. Regardless, even if both your MC30s and MX110 were restored impeccably and utilized the quietest tubes, the noise floor still might prove to be a concern. For me this combo sounded best in the small room when I used a preamp of almost no gain. That said, if I am not mistaken, the Croft has circa 10dB voltage gain, which might work really well with the MC30s if you were to go that route; supposedly a very nice preamp, too -- I have not heard it though, unlike the rest of the gear in this post. But my point here is that excess/wasted gain in a system with high efficiency speakers is not a good thing. One could argue it's not a good thing in any system but it may be particularly unpleasant with high efficiency setups, resulting in a very forward, in-your-face, sound. Smaller room can make it especially noticeable. Personally I think excess system gain is often the reason for what people perceive as harshness and fatigue with very efficient speakers.

All sorts of reasonably efficient and not too difficult to drive speakers will work fine electrically with the MC30 if you are set on them as your amps -- as has been advised in this thread. It is really a question of what sort of sound signature you prefer. How your MC30s were restored will also matter in the scheme of the whole system; how they will match with the speakers and what type of tone they produce. MC30s can sound quite different depending on the parts used to restore. For instance, my MC30s were restored to have the classic sound and are decidedly warm and glowing in the midrange. As such, they make for a very good match with the closer to neutral Cornscalas but are not as great a match with the 15" Tannoy Golds, where they produce a sound that is too mid-heavy and fat even to my taste , and lacking bass control. (If you do go Tannoys with these, btw, I would recommend to look into HPD series rather than the Golds, and possibly 12" and not 15"). I've heard a pair of MC30s restored with the goal of making them as "modern" sounding as possible, audiophile caps, a metal film and tantalum resistors -- etc. They sounded fantastic, too -- but very different. More extension up top, less glow in the mids, seemingly faster bass. I would bet those would have been a good match with the Tannoys and less so with the Klipsches... Etc.

Smaller Altecs (14 and 15) and various other two-way horn/15"(or 12") combos like the Econowave as folks here suggested SHOULD be a top match in your room it seems. But do you like horns? Maybe the ESL are more your bag? Personally I'd bet on something from the Altec/Klipsch/Tannoy variety given your music preferences but you never know...

One speaker brand I always wanted to check out with the MC30 is ZU. Have you heard any Zu speakers? If that kind of sound is to your liking, it may be another avenue worth pursuing within your budget?

 

Great, informative response, as are several others above. I truly appreciate everyone taking the time to construct such substantive responses...this is really helping.

To give a bit more background on why I settled on the MC30's...one, my choice of music. Two, the romantic sound I hear when listening to vintage tube amps...what I've heard described as "glowing"...it just sounds RIGHT to me. Three, and maybe an important point of clarification...I tend to listen at low to medium volumes...not a high volume guy.

Now taking that into consideration, I'm thinking this gain/noise floor business may be something important to focus on. And that may rule out a preamp like the MX110. The Croft Micro may be better suited for my small room/lower volume situation. And some of the speakers suggested might be a bit overkill in that regard as well, including my own suggestion of Cornwalls, perhaps?

So, any final thoughts on the Croft Micro given the lower volume/small room situation? And assuming I go that route, what current or recent production speakers might be best suited to that particular setup?

 

Fwiw, I have Cornwalls with my MC30s and RP6 with Ortofon 2M Black. Running a more modern Mc c38 and love it.

 

Tannoy the newest biggest dual cones your circumstances allow - in the future when the upgrade happens you wont burn much money.

 

Along the lines of the already suggested efficient horn-based two-way but one that is readily available, 4Pi may be very much worth looking into; right around your budget:

http://www.pispeakers.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/105

I have also used the MC30 and MC225 with the JBL 44** series monitors; namely the 4425, which I still own, and a variation on the 4430 from the pro line. While the MC30 may not be the very last word in woofer control with these, they do very well and overall it is a match that is highly enjoyable and musical -- would serve your preferences in music well. The rosy MC30s pair greatly with the fairly neutral JBL, and the efficiency is such that the macs have to work a bit to produce good levels in a medium room, and sound lovely doing it. Might be another option...

That is, if you really are set on the MC30 idea With your last post mentioning romantic tone and low-level listening, I'd steer you very strongly towards a good single-ended amp with a highly efficient speaker... I am a hopeless SET junkie, however

 

I'd skip Klipsch. I've heard Khorns and Cornwalls with MC 30s; Klipsch won't reveal all the magic that comes out of the Macs.

You certainly will enjoy Tannoys with your 30s. As well, new single drivers like Omega will sound nice.

 

Thanks again all.

Tannoy seems to be a constant theme here, but I'm overwhelmed with all the lines/choices. What's a good place to start, if I'm looking for new/gently used in the $2500 and under range? Again, matching the the MC30's is crucial.

Tubesandvinyl, haven't heard of Omegas before, but just perused their site...the Super Alnico Monitor looks like a nice choice with its 93dB sensitivity. Anyone care to comment on this model with the MC30's?