The Cassette Revival - will it last?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by paulisdead, Nov 27, 2015.

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  1. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Another factor that can't be ruled out is the signature character of the commercially duplicated cassette—soft limiting and and a cutoff of all frequencies above 8k [on a good day]. There would be a certain nostalgia for a sound that's been warmed up, a close relative to vintage AM sound. Some, no doubt, are nostalgic for that sound.
     
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  2. J Vanarsdale

    J Vanarsdale Forum Resident

    There is some truth to this, but more reserved for 1/4" reel to reel tape, which is very high fidelity depending on the speed and tape used.
     
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  3. J Vanarsdale

    J Vanarsdale Forum Resident

    It's probably the same cost as pressing CDs, but I've been finding that not many want to buy CDs now, the cassettes (with a download card of course) will move better for underground and indie bands. Depends on the type of music the group is doing.
     
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  4. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Remember that old line about the word "Assume"?

    I did real-time cassette dubbing as part of my work as a recording engineer/recordist. Had 7 cassette recorders of variable quality*—none using batteries, let me assure you—hooked into my mixing board, connected to a DAT recorder, playing back concerts of music, mostly classical, I recorded. Made at least 1000 cassettes for one performing ensemble. Took a Sony Walkman pro to the concerts I recorded to DAT so that the performers could immediately have a copy post-performance. I have heard more than enough cassettes to be able to say that they are not a high-fidelity medium.

    *Yamaha, Sony, Sharp, Awai, Akai, Nakamichi probably others, I had a lot of them.
     
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  5. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Thank you! So many figure that I, too, must not have used any allegedly high-end cassette gear. If I had, I'd love the medium. It's just not true. I'm a sound engineer as well and I've used lots of stuff. My father had an Advent deck which was supposed to be really good and I never liked it. I worked in a TV studio with a Nak circa 1992. It sounded pretty good but I didn't love that either. They had a Yamaha "Natural Sound" dual deck. Ditto. I've used Sony gear, Akai gear, etc. Nothing has bowled me over. The reason is the cassette format itself. You just can't get "great" out of a cassette. You can get "pretty good", but not "great".

    Ed
     
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  6. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    There really isn't. I see where you guys are coming from but the formats, while seeming to be the same, really aren't. ¼ inch tape is capable of astonishing fidelity (speed and tape type do matter, as you said). There's little better than a master playing back at you on a Studer. Cassettes aren't even in the same country as ¼ inch ½ track.

    Ed
     
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  7. Texastoyz

    Texastoyz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Texas, USA
    I didn't even know there was one. I have so many fond memories of handling and listening to lp records whereas the only positive memory I have of cassettes is that I could listen to it on the walkman or in the car.
     
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  8. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member

    That is true. I put blank cassettes in the same country as the CDR. With my equipment (not huge cost high-end like many folk here) a blank Type IV and a CDR recording simultaneously from the source result in dubs that are, for lack of a better description, six-of-one, half-dozen-of-the other.

    I find I prefer the cassette most of the time, for the fuller bass and more realistic rendering of vocals. On the CDR, the bass and highs are tighter. Some might like that better. When the source is a vinyl record, the cassette sounds closer to it than the CDR.

    But there's no 'wow' there as there is with a RTR deck running at least at least 7.5 ips. Even the Pioneer and Tascam RTRs I had back in storage (nowhere near a Studer or Revox) produced some 'wow' results.
     
  9. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I couldn't put cassettes in the same zip code as CD-R's either. They don't produce the full frequency response. This is even worse when Dolby is employed. To my ears, LP's sound far closer to CD's than to cassettes. Cassettes existed purely for portability. They were never intended to be an audiophile format. Even MFSL couldn't make that happen. The limitations of the format (which are considerable) kept that from happening.

    I have an Otari here at home and listening to well-recorded tune at 7.5 IPS is pretty stunning.

    Ed
     
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  10. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member

    I agree with most of what you write here, but I don't really get the cassettes 'don't produce the full frequency response' comment. My Nak has a wider range (with a metal tape) than my Tascam CD player/recorder does.

    Nak: 18Hz to 21kHz
    Tascam: 20 Hz – 20 KHz

    Of course, S/N and dynamic range spec far, far better on the Tascam CDR and there's no measurable wow and flutter.

    Still, more often than not, the Nak produces dubs that sound closer to the source (which is always vinyl records) than does the CDR. More of a change in the characteristics with the CDR than the cassette, for whatever reason, which for me makes the listening more pleasurable.

    We might be talking apples and oranges here, anyway. I'm not talking about pre-recorded cassettes which I never bought. Well, in my nearly 56 years on this earth I think I bought 3 new pre-recorded cassettes -- all three because what was on them wasn't available in any other format. And none of those were anything more than...well...not very good.
     
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  11. malcolm reynolds

    malcolm reynolds Handsome, Humble, Genius

    Location:
    Oklahoma
  12. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member

    I don't get this: quarrel vs. corral. What's this supposed to mean?
     
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  13. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    Turkey vultures hovering over a smashed cassette, the perfect Far Side cartoon.
     
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  14. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    I have been a huge Neil Young fan for a long time, but he says a LOT of things, much of which really shouldn't be taken too seriously.
    They are not a fashion statement for me, I listen to them and enjoy them. I think his imagination has gotten a bit big.
     
  15. paulisdead

    paulisdead fast and bulbous Thread Starter



    This guy says the best cassette decks are old DCC players for regular cassette playback. The same video also has the very rare Elcaset cassette format.
     
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  16. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I was paraphrasing. Neil said that about LPs in the modern age. Essentially, a CD master is used for LPs these days. Not all, but most. But and in any case, the limitations of both media are obvious, the limitations of cassettes are more audible than LPs.
     
  17. I just thought it was me.
     
  18. kelhard

    kelhard Forum Resident

    As long as the majors bung up the pressing plants with their products, and indie artists need a way to get product out on the cheap, cassettes will only grow in popularity. Give the business a few more years and people will stop buying vinyl (poor pressings, poor mastering, senseless re-issues of 90's soundtracks and over-inflated prices), then the majors will piss'n'moan about it.... Plus cassettes speak more to the indie DIY ethic.
     
  19. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    The wider range is defeated by the cassettes themselves. Tapes make hiss. Try as it might, Dolby can't just kill hiss. It kills upper frequencies as well through the Dolby compression. It's unavoidable. There's now way that wider range actually translates to the real world.

    'Course, take that tape and put it on another deck and the performance will sink like a stone.

    Ed
     
  20. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member


    Ah, I see. Never use Dolby anyway. Never was a fan.

    There is a bit of hiss on a metal tape played on my Nak, but I never found it intrusive, as with decks I had long ago in the 70s and 80s. At normal listening levels, you have to strain to hear any hiss. Really have to crank it to notice, for me anyway.


    Still, I wish I had my RTRs where I am (they're in storage). All the dubbing formats I use (cassette, 24/192 to HD) are for backup and convenience. Stopped dubbing to CDR except for the car.

    The convenience part is for imbibing times -- the carts deserve that consideration. I'm not one to find flipping a record over an undue burden. Maybe when I'm 80.
     
  21. tremspeed

    tremspeed Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    it should be as censored as any curse words. Not that I think those should be, but "h******" is used pejoratively yet without any real meaning at all. Besides, everyone knows vinyl is being ruined by Dadbods anyhow.
     
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  22. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    not a chance...we've moved on years ago.
     
  23. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Dolby never worked as well as purported. In order to work, it has to compress and you'll hear it if the tape is playing on some machine different from the one you recorded on.

    I get that. Even RTR's aren't exactly convenient. That ultimately comes down to how bad do you want great sound. If you do the work of threading open reel tape or flipping LP's, the results are worth it for me.

    Ed
     
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  24. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Yeah I did that a bit too. Then I realized it was actually making the music shrill and I stopped.

    Ed
     
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  25. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Senior Member

    Absolutely.
     
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