How should I change or upgrade my setup to make my vinyl better?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Chiliarches, Nov 30, 2015.

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  1. Chiliarches

    Chiliarches Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    Howdy all! I have been slowly pursuing and using my modest hodgepodge vinyl setup for a couple years and I am getting to the point where I would like to pursue some upgrades. Overall, I feel that the sound I get is nice (and the vinyl usually sounds much better and more realistic to my ears than my Blu-Ray Audio discs or CDs), but the sound is still sometimes a bit too "bright" and strident for my taste, and I am looking for a bit more warmth and depth, if you know what I mean. Also, I do get a bit of system hum if I turn the volume up loud on vinyl chain (even without playing a record), and inner groove distortion on some records (typically on used records, which may suggest they are damaged, though sometimes they will seem absolutely pristine until the last band...I can only think of one new record where I noticed significant inner groove distortion).

    I listen primarily to classical and jazz. I buy a lot of records from Goodwill and have already settled on finally buying a decent record cleaner (probably the Record Doctor unless I can find something better around that price point!).

    Anyhow, here is my current hodgepodge, which is also shared with a TV/ blu ray player for watching movies, listening to CDs or SACDs, etc. I'm thinking of spending $100-$300 for an upgrade or upgrade(s).
    1. Turntable: Lenco L75
      • It does not have a plinth and is currently balanced on tomato cans (seriously!). I would like to make a heavy plinth eventually, but this is a substantial project and I haven't had the time. I do like the turntable.
      • The turntable is otherwise essentially stock; the only things I have done is replace disintegrated v-blocks with new plastic ones and put a few drops of gun oil on the bearing.
    2. Cartridge: Shure V-15 III
      • I have heard that the compliance of this cartridge may be a bit high for the stock Lenco tonearm?
      • I have the cartridge set up using the Lenco protractor template.
    3. Stylus: EVG generic stylus bought for $15. I seem to remember these were made by JICO?
    4. Receiver: Pioneer VSX-523 (an entry level 5.1 home theater receiver)
    5. Pre-Amp: ART DJPRE II
    6. 2.1 speaker setup
      • Mains: Klipsch KG 4.5s. The right speaker occasionally makes a sort of rumbly scraping noise on very low frequencies in movies - like the friction noise you get when you drag a heavy piece of furniture across a hard floor - though the sound is definitely deeper than that.
      • Subwoofer: NXG BAS-500, set through the amp to cross over at 80 hz (which seems to usually take care of the noise problem from the right speaker)
    7. Cables: heaviest cables I could find cheaply at Menard's, I think 12 or 14 gauge.
    So...what would you do? Get a new preamp, stylus, cartridge, amp...something else?

    Thanks for any input!
     
  2. jawaka1000

    jawaka1000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    A few drops of GUN oil? Ha, you silly Americans! :)
     
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  3. adamdube

    adamdube Forum Resident

    Location:
    Elyria, OH USA
    Get a plinth for that table....without it you're never going to get it to sound right. Seriously.

    Also, does not appear that cartridge is a great match for your light arm....below is a link to the cartridge compliance chart. I believe your arm is about 21g of effective mass....

    http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator_results.php?m=Shure V15&cm=6.3&dc=22.5&search=search

    this is the arm chart.....as you can see a 22 compliance cart is no match at all

    http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php?eff_mass=21&submit=Submit
     
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  4. Daddy Dom

    Daddy Dom Lodger

    Location:
    New Zealand
    I would definitely sort the plinth issue ASAP. That will be holding back the sound quite a lot, IMO. (Is it slightly tinny?? :laugh:) A quick search should show you the many available options from plywood to slate.

    After that, site everything correctly, not stacked and maybe on footers of your choice (either soft/bouncy or hard - YMMV) and invest in a decent rack or shelving system. These are relatively cheap upgrades that benefit the whole system, IMO. Buy some Deoxit too, and clean all your inputs/outputs - that's a great bang-for-buck treatment.

    Too many people never get the best out of their gear before deciding something is past its best or sounding tired. As a breed, many of us rarely get to hear anything like the best our systems have to offer due to ignorance of the finer details and household compromises. It's very common.

    Finally, invest in Jim Smith's book or DVD, "Get Better Sound" then worry about things like the stylus. If it sounds better with some basic system changes, it will improve as you fit new upgrades.

    Bon chance!
    DD
     
  5. Linto

    Linto Mayor of Simpleton

    ahem
    Source First
    Power then in your case Plinth, then Motor, then arm, then cartridge.

    Leveling and support is just as critical

    A $1k turntable with a $50 cartridge sounds better than $50 turntable with $1k cartridge
     
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  6. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    I had one of these.
    Good motor unit. Sells for £2000 fully refurbished! I kid you not. The deck is sound. Lenco never finished it, those small details.
    To avoid wasting money, change the arm. Its quite reasonable but a pig to get right.
    For a start i bet you have not fitted spacers to the headshell
    Lower the arm/cartridge on to a record. View the arm tube from the side. Back end too high.
    The answer will be yes!
    The arm cannot go any lower because the plastic clip on anti skate mechanism fouls the base.
    Hence the spacers to lower the cartridge in the deep headshell.
    This is why your v15 sounds bright. It also requires 400-500pf loading.
    I have been told an Ittok will fit . A Decca International also. Possibly an adc which is light at 4-5 grammes effective mass.
    Do some research. Find the arm and as has been pointed out , a plinth.
    The one i saw on ebay had been sprayed red, and the corner where the tonearm would be was machined away.
    The arms of your choice now a universal fit.
    You won,t get much better than a v15.
    Try a Jico stylus.
    You have the foundation for a fabulous turntable.
    .
     
  7. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    What you want to achieve and what you are willing to spend might be very out of balance. (when I say "might"I mean it is.) Take every dollar you have and buy a plinth, building one is a very advanced level project. It is the kind of thing you get good at when you do it many times over. Find someone that has and buy it from them. Once that is done, start saving for a tone arm.

    Take your time and do it right. Going cheap often cost more money in the long run.
     
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  8. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season

    Location:
    Minnesota
    Switch to creamed corn. I thought everyone knew it sounds better than tomatoes. :rolleyes:
     
    Telemark, Nate, The Pinhead and 2 others like this.
  9. serendipitydawg

    serendipitydawg Dag nabbit!

    Location:
    Berkshire UK
    Go to this web site.
    www.lencoheaven.net
    More information about Lenco decks than you'll ever need. You'll probably find all you need to make a plinth yourself, or if you're not confident of your woodworking skills, to get someone else to do it for you
     
    Rolltide likes this.
  10. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    gotta keep our guns lubricated in case the gubberment comes to take um
     
    Jasonb likes this.
  11. Roger C

    Roger C Near Kalamazoo Michigan

    Location:
    Southwest Michigan
    My avator shows the Lenco 75 I used with my DIY plinth I built for a friend. The plinth takes time, but birch plywood works well. Many places will do the rough cut from a 4x8 sheet. Lencoheaven has the plans for the cut-outs. This would be the best $50 spent. The tonearm is a Linn Basic which is a drop-in to the Leno base. My other Lenco had a Rega 300 which sounded better for just a little more $, but mounted through the plinth. Numerous upgrades have followed, but never held back by the Lenco.
     
  12. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Plinth and cartridge changed for a M 44-7 or similar the stock tonearm can handle.
     
  13. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL


    Yes !!! THE most underrated cart in the market. But prolly the OP will find it too bright for his taste :

    He should get a TT worth the quality of his cart (which is not for someone on a budget -tomato cans and Godwill vinyl). Plus he seems to have speaker issues to address first :

    Word of advice : save your pennies and listen to your CDs till you can afford a decent TT.
     
  14. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    I think Roger C has hit the nail firmly on the head.
    I would definately go via this route
    I would say : this project should be done thoroughly
    I would not rush it.
    It will be a fabulous
    turntable. I use an Ifi phono stage and it had to be the best investment ever.
    It is adjustable for EVERYTHING.
    Finishes off the job.
     
  15. Chiliarches

    Chiliarches Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    Thanks, guys. You're probably right about the plinth thing. ;) I'll try to figure that out...I honestly don't think I have enough time to make one, given my lack of handi-ness, unless I can get a shop to fabricate one for me.


    Good advice...but the vinyl already sounds much better than my CDs and blu ray audio discs. It actually sounds pretty good! I know the plinth thing is goofy, but I have read quite a few folks write about how their Lencos sounded better than their original tables even without plinths (balanced on cans or whatever)...so I think there is some precedent for it being tolerable...

    Well...I actually did shim the cartridge in the headshell and play with the height of the arm to get it as level as possible...and I replaced the V-blocks, as mentioned, which cleared up a LOT of the distortion I was hearing when I first got the table running. The thing that intimidates me about changing arms is ALL the options out there seem to require some kind of surgery! I am looking at the Jelcos...but not sure which one to go with. The easiest option (250ST) has a fixed headshell, which I don't like at all since I would like to change headshells easily so I can play 78s. My Dad has about 20,000 78s and I'd like to play some of them over at my house!

    Hmmm...that's a good idea, at least while the current tonearm is in place. Is there a short list of recommended, affordable cartridges that would match well with the tonearm? I know I tried a Shure M44E and didn't care for it nearly as much as the V15 on this arm.
     
  16. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Chiliarches,

    The L 75 was not originally built with ease of tonearm swapping to begin with. It's neat that there are some tonearms which can be subbed in.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  17. FJosh

    FJosh Forum Resident

    Klipsch are bright speakers, especially on SS gear.
     
  18. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Depends on the SS you use too. Some do fine, some do not.
     
  19. Nate

    Nate Forum Resident

    Creamed spinach will provide a more robust sound. More muscle
     
    ggergm likes this.
  20. vinylkid58

    vinylkid58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Victoria, B.C.
    A few years ago I picked up a Jelco 370H. It's a pretty good arm, comes with a standard removable headshell. The only downside is the lack of a multi-pin connector in the base pillar.

    Yeah, like that's ever going to happen.:biglaugh:

    jeff
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2015
  21. Chiliarches

    Chiliarches Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
  22. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    I,m following this and feel your heading inthe right direction . Forward planning.
    I also prefer a removable headshell. I don,t think anyone would tell the difference in a blind test.
    I know Sme do a removable headshell in their range. Be costly though.
    Very difficult to change cartridges in sutu. My sme4 is fixed.
    Its a nughtmare unless you remove the arm first!
     
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