Brent Mydland and Vince Welnick- your opinions?

I didn't like Brent's voice or songs. When I put headphones on and focus on his keys his playing - especially live - blows me away.

 

Brent was a beast on the keyboards. His organ playing was terrific and he brought a lot out of Jerry. Vince was an odd fit. I didn't care for the "plinky" tone of his keyboard or the the high harmonies and his songs are among the worst the band ever played.

It's really not a fair comparison. Brent was in the band for ten years and had time to become a band member. Vince was role player and hired hand for the final years. Very different situations.

 

This thread is somewhat amusing. At least we all agree the fat man rocked! ;-}

As for my 2-cents, having started seeing shows in 1970 and until Jerry Passed, TC was my favorite but also played for what was likely my favorite era; the Anthem/Red Live Dead they were playing back then. Had the miracle gift of seeing him for what may be my all time favorite show; April 28, 1971 when TC appeared for the 2nd set as a guest. OMFG is all I have to say about that !!!!

After TC, I really really really really loved Brent. I also saw the dead with brent for years; from when he first joined until he passed. Perhaps that makes a difference; don't know. I was very fond of Keith and enjoyed him, but both TC and Brent were on a whole other level.

Cheers -Zafu

 

Brent came on board and had to replace two people, and he pulled it off (his backing vocal contributions are generally stellar, IMO). Vince was placed in a very difficult position, as the band's situation grew increasingly dysfunctional through no fault of his. My favorite "Vince shows" (and I use the quotation marks purposefully) featured Bruce on grand piano and Vince so low in the mix that you didn't know he was there. His two latter day contributions to the canon pale in comparison to Brent's songs, IMO. I never skip a song when listening to a show and I saved my "bathroom breaks" for between sets and/or "Drums" and "Space" if need be, but I could never get excited over "Samba in the Rain" or "Way To Go Home". But I was always happy to get "Tons of Steel" or "I Will Take You Home" (particularly out of "Space", it made for a great contrast).

 

As a keyboard player (and, specifically, one with a lot of experience playing in rock bands, in which I would not only program my own synth sounds but also design custom effects settings and do my own EQ on the keyboard amp that either went out into the house or direct to the board), this is hard to fathom. You just play differently when different sounds are pulled up. I can understand Healy or whoever doing EQ or effects on Welnick's sound, but dictating his patches? That's insane, and, with Welnick essentially a band member and not a sideman, inexcusable.

 

Vince was paid the same amount as everyone else and got to contribute original songs as well as singing lead on some covers. Not what I would call a hired hand.

 

From what I saw, I don't think Vince was calling any shots. They let him sing four or five songs because they didn't want to and each was worse than the next. Jerry was working with Brent very closely on stage, communicating and choosing directions. Brent pretty much took the lead in the studio on the final records. The Vince freeze out in all post Dead projects would also be an indication he was a little less than a full member. God rest his soul, I'm sure he was a very sweet guy but there is really no comparison to him and Brent.

 

It seems Vince and Jerry had a good working relationship as well............based on him being responsible for bringing back "Here Comes Sunshine" and a lot of the latter day Beatles covers. The freeze out after the Ratdog incident was unfortunate. In some ways, I think a segment of Deadheads hate Vince because of that more than his limited playing with the Grateful Dead.

 

I don't know..
I'm stuck in the '71 to '75 era...
Absolutely love it..

 

The freeze out didn't have anything to do with the fans. He was in the Rad Dog for the first tour in 96 for six shows. I saw the one at Mesa Amphitheater, it was god awful. Vince overdosed on the tour bus bus and Bobby put him in a cab to the hospital and cut all communication.

 

I meant in the aftermath of the Rat Dog incident.......along with the rest of the band cutting off communication, I noticed more fan dislike of him.

 

I don't know if it was all great between Jerry and Brent either (at least judging from the pre-drums "Brent song without Jerry" slot being common in mid 80's shows) but as I mentioned earlier, I agree Brent was far more of a contributor.

 

Jerry did seem to not like "Don't Need Love."

 

Bralove fed him different patches from his position side stage during the show and Vinde would choose what he liked. Seems bizarre to me but I guess if they had a good relationship/understanding/mind meld it could work.

 

3 reasons :

1. No back line on stage; all the amps were mic'ed in is booths under the stage starting in (I think) 91??

2. Dan Healy was gone a lot. Say what you want about Healy, but that guy could rock a stadium.

3. There were times when the mix was the way it was in order to hide the ugly truth...

 

Very weird, seeing as when he auditioned, he used Brent's gear...then Bralove and Healy told him that he was getting a MIDI interface and that they would send him patches that he could choose from so that he didn't sound anything like Brent.

Those guys were weird.

 

Reportedly Garcia would turn himself down.

 

Vince was NOT a hired hand - he was a full member of the Dead, with voting power and all.

Also, as we covered, Vinnie didn't get to choose his own sounds.

The only difference between the two tenures is that Brent's was twice as long, and as such, he got to put his stamp on 3 studio albums' worth of songs, in addition to all the live stuff.

Had Jerry lived, Vince would've integrated himself more, just like Brent had done after a few years.

 

That did happen with more and more frequency.

 

Vince did fall into a deep depression, but he was his own worst enemy.

Bobby did what he could, but you don't want your friends dying on your tour bus.

I mean, ostracising him from the Dead universe may have been extreme...but Vinnie needed help, and the Dead are notorious about not doing anything to help their own when it comes to drugs and mental illness.

Jerry and Vinnie were very close and getting closer while working on the album. It seems that some in the Dead circles hold Vinnie in contempt because he seemed the most distraught by Garcia's death, even though he had known him the shortest amount of time.

Either way...what he did in front of his wife was way, way worse and completely unfathomable.

Poor guy.

 

More than a little off topic. But listening to yoko on let it be out takes makes me really appreciate Donna

 

I think the decline in popularity has more to do with the harsh light that many people see the final years of the band. In the context of the times, Vince was the keyboard player of the worlds greatest touring act. We loved going to shows and he was a part of that magic. Now that those shows are just recordings, they are compared against the rest of the catalog. For a variety of reasons, those shows are not loved nor have they been highlighted by the band in subsequent releases.

I know I have had many instances of getting flamed on this board after saying I liked anything from the 90's.

For me it comes down to this, I will listen to Brent songs, I skip Vince's. I do not need to hear Samba in the Rain or Way to go Home ever again. Blow away, Never trust a Woman, even Far From Me are pretty good tunes.

 

One could say the same for Brent. Speed balling yourself to death isn't too far ahead of suicide. It's all pretty horrific stuff.

 

Of course, but with Brent it was most certainly an accident and one that clearly hit Jerry, in particular, quite hard.

 

I agree 100% with you about Healy. That man had the magic touch when it came to sound! Cutler couldn't and didn't come close to filling his shoes.