Sennheiser HD-800S hit the streets this month!!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by MonkeyMan, Jan 4, 2016.

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  1. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    I bought them at the end of December, and have an immediate buyer, and here's the thing, I want the balanced cable and the standard cable, as I have the Sennheiser amplifier, which should give me Sennheiser's best. The balanced cable alone is a whopping $375.00, so I should come out fine with my dealer and my buyer, all is well on the Sennheiser swap around. :cop:
     
    Dino likes this.
  2. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pisa, Italy
    You almost convinced me
     
  3. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    $380 for a stock balanced headphone cable is an audiophile tax. Ouch. I wouldn't be able to pay that for a stock cable and not feel like the taxman got me. Fortunately the balanced cable is included with the HD800s so if I buy the HD800s I won't see the price of the cable and can convince myself that having the cable bundled in actually gets me a discount on the cable so I won't feel so taxed.

    I do understand how and why a custom handmade headphone cable can be $400. And that's fine. I'm not begrudging those cables. It's just that with a stock cable I expect a better price due to economies of scale and larger volume manufacturing. We're not getting that economy of scale price benefit with the stock Sennheiser balanced cable. And that's where the ouch comes in. Oh well. It is what it is. At least it's a good cable with good ergonomics and good manufacturing.

    You'll likely be getting the HD800s before I'm able to give them a listen. You're going to have to tease me about how much better they are compared to the old HD800. ;)
     
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  4. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    I could be wrong on this, but it's as important to me to have the headphone output balanced to the HD-800S as it is to have the 1 cent Helmholtz resonator.
    HS your up on this stuff, you did some good research, nice work! Ok, I have a good question for you, and this is going to be a tough one. What improvements do you think Sennheiser made to improve the low end of those headphones, other than trim that little 6000 Hz bump that was sticking out??
     
  5. murrays

    murrays Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    You might want to hold off on that at the moment, as Sennheiser's bringing out a new amplifier too. The new one will be better than the one you've got (and black to match the colour of the HD800S).
     
  6. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    I don't know what they've done, if anything, to improve the bass. It's possible that the bass improvement that's been mentioned is just a side-effect of cleaning up unwanted resonances. That could clean up the bass a little bit in a way that might be audible in critical listening.

    Using a balanced cable with an amp that is truly balanced, and not just pseudo-balanced, will make a difference. That part is a no-brainer decision. The money spent on the balanced cable will be worth it with your amp.

    The little bit of plastic and foam for the resonator thing will also be worth it. I hope. Otherwise I'm going to be disappointed.
     
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  7. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    No, I have seen that one, the 800 in black, I'm good with my amp, it has plenty of headphone power, no problems at all with the 600.
     
  8. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    I'll tell you what I have really enjoyed, and it certainly moves away from my no tone controls upbringing, Media Center 21. For the longest, I had the free version of Media Center, Jukebox, but always had problems with the art pasting, not so with Media Center 21, and that dsp studio with all the various equalizer controls, delay settings, sub-woofer settings, it has it all, and you can really pump up older recordings like The Beatles, which is a good example. You can insert a tiny bit of delay for a great effect, I have really enjoyed that, especially when using the HD-800 headphones.
     
  9. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Perfect Sound Through Crystal Clear Digital

    Well, I'm old, been with them a long time, since the 414, and several others, leading to the 580, then the 600 and the 650 and I stopped for many years, finally went for the HD-800. When you get my age, you want something a bit nicer. I personally think I deserve the new Orpheus, but even at 35% off, I'm still about $30,000.00 out of kilter, so when I compared the HDVD 600 and the HD-800 to the new Orpheus, all of a sudden it became a wonderful choice. That is how you have to think about it. :crazy:
     
  10. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    Sonarworks makes a VST plugin that does EQ correction/calibration for the HD800 and several other headphones. I'm certain they'll be adding a preset for the new HD800s. Sonarworks works in JRiver Media Center. It's neat if you're into that sort of thing. It does give the HD800 a new sound signature, and more bass.

    Depends on whether you like the idea of digital EQ correction like that. It works, but I also believe it also does harm the sound. It would be neat for occasional use. I wouldn't use EQ correction like that for all listening. It's kinda neat. I've played with it at a head-fi meet. I haven't gotten the software for myself yet.
     
  11. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    Still prefer my HD600's.
     
  12. Claus

    Claus Senior Member

    Location:
    Germany
    and I still prefer my HD800 with the ALO Audio Reference 8 cable.
     
    alan967tiger likes this.
  13. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    LOL
     
  14. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    The HD600 sounds good with a lot more amps than the HD800 does. With many amps the HD800 could be described as a face tweeter. Some amps make it more treble prominent than others. Only a few amps manage to tame it. If you've only tried the HD800 with amps that cause it to sound overly bright then it's easy to prefer the HD600. The HD800 is a picky SOB regarding amps and source. I consider that a fault and not a plus. And is a reason why I still don't have a HD800.

    A problem with the HD800 is that it has more treble than the Harman Headphone Target Response Curve. The treble above 3 kHz on up is about +3 dB too high based on the Harman response curve. Hence why it's a face tweeter and a bright SOB. It's always going to be leaning to the bright side. Which is a reason I have been holding off and waiting for an HD850 style variant that adds more bass and less treble. An HD850 variant would more closely match the Harman Headphone Target Response Curve. Unfortunately it seems an HD850 variant is not going to happen. The HD800S does not fully address this problem. The HD800S does address a treble prominence around 6 kHz, but doesn't address the problem that everything from 3 kHz on up is about +3 dB too high. It's a bright SOB, and always will be. It can be tamed with the right amp and source, but it still wants to be bright.

    The HD600 does not have those treble problems. And sounds very nice with lots of quality amps. It's difficult to get the HD600 to have too much treble. Unlike the HD800.
     
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  15. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    Sounds like Sennheiser has been working on the hi frequency problem as the 800S has a new Absorber Technology. Sounds kind of interesting if you've read there website.
     
  16. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    The absorber fixes a problem where the HD800 has too much energy around 6 kHz. But does not fix the more general problem that it has too much treble from 3 kHz on up. That 6 kHz bump was caused by reflections happening inside the ear cup. The HD800 is an incredibly open headphone, but not open enough to not be free of all reflections. The absorber is a room treatment for a headphone cup.
     
    Tim 2 likes this.
  17. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat

    Location:
    Canada
    im interested about your opnion of sonarworks. why do you find it harms the sound.
    Many people go as far as to say that without EQ, they couldnt live with stock hd-800 and with sonarworks or EQ, the hd-800 are the best phones under 5k.
    I use sonarworks with hd-800 btw...
     
  18. IAMBLEST

    IAMBLEST Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dubai
    I got my HD800s for $999 then spent $220 on the norne draug 2 cables from Trevor Goldman. They absolutely made the HD800s sing and removed that overly harsh brightness at the top end.

    I have the stock balanced xlr CH800S cable as well... It's so overpriced for what it is..
     
  19. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    Sonarworks does a lot of EQ to get the kind of corrections it does. Many bands of parametric EQ affecting the whole audible audio range. Some broad EQ. Some narrow EQ. That sort of application of EQ is going to affect phase. I don't believe that sort of EQ can be transparent. The EQ of course affects the frequency response. But also affects the phase which will affect the sense of space that is in the recording. A lot of what I listen for in headphone sound is for a sense of space. Having that subtle sense of space altered by having the EQ make the phase look like a roller coaster ride is not appealing to me. Why have a DAC like the Yggy with very well behaved filters only to mess that up with messy phase alteration caused by the EQ?

    I'm OK with small and broad EQ changes. I'm not so OK with the style of EQ that Sonarworks does. That's too much EQ that is trying to correct too much.

    The Sonarworks EQ correction with the HD800 is neat in some ways. With the EQ correction and some sub-bass added the HD800 can actually do dubstep. Who'da thought? That's pretty neat. It's like giving you a whole new headphone. It's easy to hear that sort of change and effect as very effective.

    The Seattle are head-fi group has been actively exploring Sonarworks. They were the ones who did the recent shootout with the HD800 + Sonarworks and the Abyss. They like their Sonarworks. Especially with the HD800 and the HD600/HD650. I'll get to hear the Sonarworks again in a month when I go up to Seattle for the next head-fi meet. I'll get to hear that heavily modded HD800 with Sonarworks. I should also get to hear the Abyss. Interestingly, one of the guys who was part of that shootout ended up buying an Abyss.

    Sonarworks is only $99. I'll likely end up buying it and playing with it at home. I'll probably be buying an HD800s this year. And I'll get Sonarworks so I can play with it and the HD800s. But it will be just so I can play around with it. I don't expect to use it for critical listening.
     
    Dino likes this.
  20. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat

    Location:
    Canada
    hi
    I just got a hd800 after seeing the praise done around the hd800 + sonarworks combination.

    I have fab filter proq2 as a vst EQ. I must admit that I also feel the same way about sonarworks. the amount of bands use to eq every part of the hd800 FR just seems wrong to me and I cant help but think that we should apply eq only for the very problematic parts of a speaker or headphones. With hd800, the main problem is the 5 to 12 khz peak.
    Ill try to do a comparison between equing only the 5 to 12 khz od the hd800 with fabfilter proq2 and compare with sonarworks. Who knows, maybe sonarworks really is transparent and add more good then bad to the sound...


    About phase, I always thought problem with EQ was indeed phase anomalies. but since headphones are only one driver, how can that affect SQ. I always thought it was problematic with multi ways speakers but not in single drivers like fullrange driver based speaker or headphones....
     
  21. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    It's not just phase, but also impulse response. The two are related in EQ. A linear phase EQ has a different impulse response than minimum phase. Differences in pre-ringing, post-ringing, how steep or gradual the cutoff is or rolloff is, etc. Linear phase and minimum phase EQ don't sound the same. Differences in impulse, tonal quality, how the center of the image fills in, sense of space, and other things. I would expect that Sonarworks is using a mixture of minimum phase as linear phase depending on what is being adjusted for. So you'll end up with a mixture of linear phase and minimum phase artifacts altering the sound from the recording. Potentially affecting coherence that was in the original recording if the original recording was carefully recorded, mixed, and mastered. Why risk messing that up with EQ?

    And then you're sending that altered sound to your DAC. If you've got a Schiit multibit DAC you've got that DAC in large part because of the sound of its filter. If you've got a Chord DAC you've got that DAC in large part because of the sound of its filter. If you've got an Ayre or Meridian DAC you've got that DAC in large part because of the sound of their filters. Why would you want to send music with such an altered and EQed impulse response to a DAC like that where the reason you have the DAC is in large part because of the filter and the impulse response of the filter it uses. You're in essence sending garbage to the DAC and making less likely that the DAC will be able to fully give you the sound that you bought the DAC for. Why do that? I've heard magical things happen while listening to some recordings on my Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC. Would I hear that same magic or same degree of magic in those recordings if I was using Sonarworks? Possibly not. I know I've lost that Schiit multibit magic in some recordings by applying digital processing like crossfeed.
     
  22. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat

    Location:
    Canada
    hi
    in sonarworks, you can choose wither linear mode, minimum phase or mixed. No reason to take LP. ive been reading about EQ and most pro woudnt recommend to listen to LP and use most of the time MP.

    My dac uses no filter I think: EC designs mosaic T but I really dont know or understand how affecting phase would have any relation to the filters in a dac. Id love to know more.

    why use EQ? because in stock form, the hd-800 is most definitely too bright with bad recordings... Let us know when you play with sonarworks and get yourself a hd-800. im also somehow by principle against such severe EQ but if it really sounds better....
     
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