The Sound Of Vinyl: Half-Speed Mastering from Abbey Road

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by bferr1, Nov 5, 2015.

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  1. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    I mean, look, I'm not going to be replacing my four-sided Artisan LP. But this has potential to sound good. I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand just because it's not all-analogue.
     
    Tom Campbell likes this.
  2. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Part of the half speed mastering rise to popularity was the claim of using 'the master tape / tapes' to obtain the best possible resolution. Many popular album titles were actually sourced from copy tapes legitimately labeled master tapes (the LP cutting master, etc.). In hindsight of course we now know that just because a tape box had 'master' written on it does not mean that was indeed the original or first generation two track stereo master.

    And we know from hindsight that some half speed mastered titles were botched, the most infamous being Magical Mystery Tour, sourced from a UK copy tape made from something like a fifth generation US copy tape used by Capitol.

    That extra or great 'detail' we heard (you too apparently) on most titles was not detail in the sense of superior resolution because the source was lower generation, but simply an illusion from judicious EQ'ing, a better signal to noise ratio, and the superlative nearly dead quiet Japanese virgin vinyl. The combination essentially 'punched past' what the average popular turntable of the 70's/80's was capable of achieving.

    Decades on, as turntable technology took leaps upward and some of us re-discovered vinyl, many of those half speed mastered LPs don't sound anywhere near the top of the heap anymore. In fact, they can be downright irritating. Most of them are bettered by a good copy of a standard, commercial 'original' pressing. I am not alone here, this forum is a good example of how many audio nuts re-evaluated and discovered the same thing. The mastering and choices used to create that illusion of 'extra detail' are often very apparent on newer systems. They served their purpose back in the day - but its a different day now. And different choices have to made.

    The reason I bring up the 'master tape' part of the half speed mastering phenomena is because so many pop and rock 'era' CDs did not use a good master tape, were transferred digitally on old technology, and worst of all, 'remastered' so the CD would sound good on the cheap systems, mini systems, car systems, boom boxes etc. that replaced 'real' stereo systems in the 1980's. The average CD had all the great attributes you've noted - but that was not enough to make them sound better. Rather, they sounded cleaner and quieter. And thats the litmus for many. Nevertheless, there were (and are) audiophile versions made of older & classic LP titles for the CD market - and many of these are great.

    As always, the sources used - and proper mastering - are more important than the media itself.
     
  3. Dhreview16

    Dhreview16 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London UK
    There is an article on SDE which has quotes from the Abbey Road masterer, Miles Showell, about the source tapes for each of the new releases and what has or hasn't been done to them, in case anyone wants to read further:

    www.superdeluxeedition.com

    I can't understand why anyone would buy anything but an original of something like Ghost In The Machine by the Police, but I'm in no position to comment on the remasters, not having heard them.
     
  4. spaulding

    spaulding Hoi Polloi

    Location:
    The Windy City
    Thanks for that -
    though it took some time - it's nice to have someone offer transparency on source material - that should be the norm.
     
  5. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    Here's the direct link to the article you mentioned: http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/new-half-speed-mastered-vinyl-series-launched-by-universal/
     
    Dhreview16 likes this.
  6. RHCD

    RHCD Reverend Bong

    To save others wasting their time the notes are the same for every record:

    This album was cut from a high-resolution digital transfer from the best known analogue tape in existence. Only minimal sympathetic equalisation was applied to the transfer to keep everything as pure as possible. Also, as this was an analogue, vinyl only high quality release, I did not apply any digital limiting. This is added to almost all digital releases to make them appear to be loud and is responsible for “the loudness war” and in almost every case is anything but natural and pure sounding.
     
    Tuck1977 likes this.
  7. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    Mikey Fremer should review one of the Who singles boxes mastered by Miles Showell. He was able to achieve a clean sound with a good deal of punch. I have no doubt that these albums will sound pretty good. I'm not saying they'll surpass the originals.

    Fremer was quick to jump the gun with Miles. This is where I find Fremer to be obnoxious.
     
    Gabe Walters and Tom Campbell like this.
  8. sonofjim

    sonofjim Senior Member

    The problem with Fremer is if he gets a whiff of something digital in the chain he automatically writes it off in his own mind. He then goes about writing a review with a biased viewpoint. I like the guy for his passion for all things vinyl and I read his reviews, with a grain of salt. When he gushes about something, you can bet it's awesome. I totally disagree with some of his bad reviews though. I have a sizable stack of his bad reviews that I thoroughly enjoy. I would really love to spend an evening with Fremer listening to his system with a couple drinks and directly compare my impressions with his. That would be a great frame of reference.
     
  9. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    I'm sure he is able to hear detail that my system isn't able to approach.

    I agree with you. He recently did this with the new Beatles 1 album. When he did a quick review of the CD, the SQ was pretty good. However, when he reviewed the vinyl recently, he was much more critical, throwing out terms such as digital compression, etc. He panned the new stereo mix of Ticket To Ride, saying it lacks dynamics. It's nowhere as near as good as the original stereo mix, blah blah blah. It's obvious the new stereo is closer to the mono mix. It has more power than previous stereo mixes. Sometimes it's ok to use compression. To him, if it's not audiophile like, it's worthless. This is where I find him to be obnoxious.
     
    sonofjim likes this.
  10. SuperFuzz

    SuperFuzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC USA
    Not necessarily. There are plenty of favorable reviews on his site for records cut from digital. He gushes over the last Taylor Swift album, never condemning it for being digital. "It sounds good too", he says. He gave the latest D'Angelo record "Black Messiah" a 9/10 rating while acknowledging it was cut from digital.

    The most favorable review of a digital cut though, has to be of Lyn Stanley's "Lost in Romance" which he gave an 11/11 for sound, and said: "You will not hear a more naturally recorded female voice than you’ll hear on the record. At least I haven’t, which is made all the more amazing considering its high resolution Pro Tools origin. "
     
    sonofjim likes this.
  11. sonofjim

    sonofjim Senior Member

    Personally, I'm not so sure he is able to hear things that your system can't approach. I've read your profile and your equipment is fine. Sure, his is more expensive but most of his really high dollar stuff is really overrated IMO. That's why I'd like to listen on his system and form my own opinion. I respect him and what he's done for vinyl in many ways but I don't hang on his every word. I've found myself in disagreement a bit too often for that.
     
    tubesandvinyl, Robert C and Tommyboy like this.
  12. frank3si

    frank3si Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Castle DE USA
  13. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    Great job in picking some overlooked titles that hadn't been reissued on vinyl before. </eyeroll>
     
  14. DVEric

    DVEric Satirical Intellectual

    Location:
    New England
    Cutting at half-speed is great, but from a digital transfer? Maybe I'm wrong, but what's the point?
     
  15. Chemguy

    Chemguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Western Canada
    Cut from "high resolution digital transfer"?

    No thanks.

    Didn't you guys get the message from the Beatles mono box set? Do it right.
    Hunt down the original tapes and get to it.:doh:
     
  16. cyclistsb

    cyclistsb Forum Resident

    At least they were very up front about the source and digital transfers, in this regard I at least applaude them for complete transparency. Ghost in the Machine is a favorite record of mine but always a very troubling recording. I'll be interested in hearing some reviews first. I know there is another thread about these releases, but the search engine for this forum absolutly sucks a$$ so I never flame people who post a repeated thread.
     
  17. NotOneStraw

    NotOneStraw Well-Known Member

    what's troubling about it?

    I've got an '81 U.S. pressing, sounds wonderful. cost me maybe $7

    edit: thanks for mentioning how bad the search functionality is. It seriously sucks sh!t.
     
  18. cyclistsb

    cyclistsb Forum Resident

    Maybe I said this wrong, ghost in the machine doesn't sound like any other police record. It's much darker and I equate that with a poor recording. I'll toss it on again and maybe I'll change my mind.
     
  19. NotOneStraw

    NotOneStraw Well-Known Member

    I'm by no means an expert (and I only have entry-level audiophile gear, I should mention), but my copy really does sound great, especially for what I paid. It's my favorite Police record too. :)
     
  20. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Me too, its a fantastic sounding record. Sounds huge in my setup and the best of all the Police records ive had on vinyl...
     
    Terry likes this.
  21. NotOneStraw

    NotOneStraw Well-Known Member

    just to clarify, I was referring to my 1981 U.S. release (A&M Sp-3730). Just in case that wasn't clear. :)
     
  22. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    i have the first UK TJ sterling cut.. And i believe it is the same as the US pressing. It sounds about as good as you could expect it to sound really...
     
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  23. NotOneStraw

    NotOneStraw Well-Known Member

    right on then! I love mine :)
     
    richbdd01 likes this.
  24. frank3si

    frank3si Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Castle DE USA
    I search here first, then as a back-up also search Google like so: "Universal Music" "Steve Hoffman"

    If I don't see it then, I post :agree: But even then, sometimes you find it's being discussed elsewhere :rolleyes:
     
  25. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    How they gonna improve on it when theyre doing it digital and the original sounds like AAA done right? The only one which could well sound better is New Gold Dream, which was an early digital press. I may end up getting that.
     
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