Please Help Me Buy A Mac Mini

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by stereoguy, Feb 7, 2016.

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  1. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo! Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Currently I have a VERY old Mac Mini (2005) but have a very nice Cinema monitor that is much newer than the mini.

    I'm planning on buying a new Mac Mini, and putting the latest version of Final Cut Pro to do video editing on it.

    Can anyone suggest what the specs of the Mini should be for video editing? I could always add extra storage via USB, in fact I have a 1 TB portable drive that Ive never even taken out of the box.

    please let me know your thoughts...thanks!
     
  2. Gary7704

    Gary7704 Chasing that sound….

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I would make sure to get an external HD that utilizes a thunderbolt connection. Keep FCP on your internal drive and save all you work to the external.
    I would go for nothing less than 16gb of ram. 2.6 - 3.0 processor. You could also get one with an SSD internal drive, that would also give you the access speed needed for video.
     
  3. JorgeGvb

    JorgeGvb Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    With video the more horsepower the better. Max it out with a i7 chip, 16GB of ram, and the biggest SSD drive you can afford.
     
    ex_mixer and JPagan like this.
  4. drasil

    drasil Former Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    have you used FCPX before? if not, you're in for a... surprise.

    you might want to hold onto your legacy version of FCP.
     
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  5. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo! Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Thank you fellas, for the info.

    Drasil: No, I have not used FCP before, I've only used some freeware stuff. Thats sort of the reason i'm doing this, I want to become proficient on FCP. Whats the Surprise you mention?
     
  6. drasil

    drasil Former Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    you'll probably be okay, then. FCPX is drastically different from previous versions of FCP and forces the user to use apple's editing workflow which is theoretically more streamlined than the established conventions of nonlinear editing (no EDL!) but which takes time to acclimate to and ultimately is not that much more efficient than the usual standards.

    a lot of people have crossed over to premiere. I just still use FCP7.
     
  7. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    I love the Mac Mini I got for my mom. However, I was under the impression that folks doing serious video editing and rendering type work were using the Mac Pro. Other than that, I definitely agree to just max out everything on the Mac Mini; these applications are very demanding. ITon't cheap out

    My question would be SSD versus hybrid drive-external Thunderbolt for the projects and internal SSD for the software seems like it should work great, unless someone more expert than I feels otherwise.

    Backup backup backup!! Time Machine is cool BUT your files aren't just easily sitting there to extract if the machine goes south-you need Time Machine to extract them. So I like to have a kind of cloned back up besides. I believe over a Thunderbolt connection you should be able to make the external bootable if you copy the system to it.
     
  8. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    I'd buy the previous generation Mac Mini used, a late 2012 i7 and put 16 gigs of RAM and a terabyte of SSD in it myself. Apple's prices for RAM and SSD space is positively criminal.

    I'd spend the money I'd save on external storage, like a Drobo with a Thunderbolt connection and fill the Drobo with a bunch of 4 terabyte SATA drives. Any individual drive can fail and be replaced without losing your data.

    Raw processing power doesn't matter anywhere near as much as HD speed and RAM for video editing. It only shows up on rendering the final output. The RAM on the current model is soldered in for no reason other than typical Apple jerkishness. Screw 'em!
     
    BayouTiger likes this.
  9. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    Are you sure you don't want to look for a deal on the (current model) Late 2013 Mac Pro?

    Here are the two Macs I run daily:
    1) Late 2014 Mac mini - 1TB FusionDrive, 8GB RAM, core i5 - Does great for everyday tasks and occasional audio/video transcoding.
    2) Late 2013 Mac Pro - 256 SSD, D300 x 2 graphics, 16GB RAM - for normal day-to-day usage, it doesn't feel significantly faster than the mini, but anything video-related, its an order of magnitude faster.

    A lot of the Mac mini fan-boys might push you towards the 2012 model mini, but even though you can upgrade the RAM, the video performance is really worse than the 2014 models. Someone above recommended "maxing out" a current-gen mini. I think you're better off throwing another $1k at it and getting a real machine (Mac Pro) that will actually delivery the performance you're expecting with Final Cut Pro.
     
  10. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo! Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Hi Sam. Thanks for your input. "Throwing another 1K at it" is not so easy for me.

    Wouldnt Chris's suggestion of buying a late 2012 i7Mac Mini used, and putting 16 gigs of RAM and a terabyte of SSD in it work well?
     
  11. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo! Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
  12. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    The HD4000 graphics in the 2012 minis are literally 4 years old and are going to suck for video editing/FCP. If you can't swing the $2500 or so for a Pro, maybe a used 5,1 Pro with dedicated graphics would be a wiser move.
     
  13. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    "Video related" covers several things - input, editing and output. For output, encoding to MPEG, I have no doubt the Mac Pro will be faster. But input speed is determined by the media (in my case SD cards from various cameras). A Mac Pro won't be any faster on that. On editing, the SSD and the internal bus is the primary speed bottleneck. Having a terabyte of space inside where you can hold an entire project is going to really pay off more than the processor or GPU. Only when you're rendering the final project does the faster processor really count. Does FCP use the GPU for MPEG encoding? Anyway, if it's not happening in real time, the difference between two hours to render a 2 hour long MPEG file and three hours is not worth the additional expense, at least in my opinion.

    Ask Macbreak Weekly host Leo LaPorte about his Mac Pro. He was totally fired up about it when he first got it, but now hates it and has dumped it in favor of an iMac. His reason is mainly because it cannot drive a 4K display without tearing, where the iMac does 5K all day long. The Kansas City Apple store no longer has a Mac Pro on the sales floor.
     
  14. DesertChaos

    DesertChaos Forum Resident

    As always, it's a good idea to keep an eye on Apple's product cycles, and while the rumor sites are not of course 100% accurate they can give a reasonable expectation of when the new models may appear. maybe you don't want the newest greatest but these releases also affect prices on the older models .... indications are to hang in and wait a bit, a refresh is overdue
    http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac_Mini
     
  15. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    In what way? Video editing is all about moving pixels from the hard drive/SSD to the screen. It doesn't use the 3D features of the video card at all. OK, maybe for super-cheesy 3D transitions.

    I don't cut video on a Mac (I use Windows 10 and Edius 7.5) but I work on both a 2011 HP Elitebook and a new i7 desktop, and honestly the same project edits at the same speed on both. It's only rendering where the faster processor comes in. I use both Windows and Mac, and do support on both. Anyone who is reasonably adept with a screw driver can follow the instructions to upgrade the hard drive and memory on the 2012 Mac Mini.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
  16. BayouTiger

    BayouTiger Forum Resident

    I have a 2013 6core MacPro, and two 2012 Minis (i7/16gb) Also have a 2009 27" iMac 3.4/16gb. The Minis are excellent, but the older iMac blows them away. Of course my MacPro blows them all away,specifically for FCPX. FCPX really makes great use of background tasks and makes better use of the video system than FCP did. I would look for a used iMac with dedicated graphics. You can still use your Cinema Display as a secondary. Try to find one new enough to have USB3 unless you can swing the cost of a good thunderbolt array. I have a Pegasys R6 and it has been solid as a rock for several years.
     
  17. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo! Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Tiger: What should the year, and specs of the imac be?
     
  18. Khaki F

    Khaki F Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kenosha, WI. USA
    Hello. I'm not going to add much to this discussion, other than to mention there's been a reasonable amount of negative feedback regarding Final Cut Pro X, and investing in it is something I'd urge you to consider carefully. You won't have to go beyond a couple of basic Google searches to uncover a lot of disappointment with the software, but there's one article that really stuck with me:

    http://www.theverge.com/2015/12/13/...ro-x-assistant-editor-job-adobe-premiere-avid

    I've worked with Both Avid and Premiere, and use Premiere now, mostly because it's not hard to meet the system requirements, and Avid is more for film and broadcast editing. I'm not affiliated in any way with Avid, Adobe, or Apple. I use Apple computers though, and love their hardware and OS. I'm not anti-Apple except for some of their apps. FCPX is one of them.
     
  19. BayouTiger

    BayouTiger Forum Resident

    My preference would be a mid 2011 i7-3.4.
     
  20. Gary7704

    Gary7704 Chasing that sound….

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I just purchased a mini and was about to pull the trigger on a 2011. Then I discovered that the graphics on the 2014 are much better.

    I have FCPX on my MacBook Pro and just use the mini for my home media network.
     
  21. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    Yes, the dedicated graphics in a Mac Pro or iMac will use OpenCL to render in FCPX much faster than integrated graphics in a mini. The Late 2013 Mac Pros can drive (multiple) 4K displays just fine, I dunno what issue Leo has, but I'm sure the 5K iMac is better for his purpose.

    Sure, the 2012 mini is a great platform for DIY. But the OP was looking at some $1K models. In that price range, you have to consider other options if video editing is the primary goal.

    Also, a 2012 mini is limited to SATAIII SSD speeds, and TB1. So ~500MB/s is the most you're gonna get from an internal drive. The Late 2014 mini or 2013 Mac Pro with SSD can push 700-900MB/s, and you can go really nuts with the Mac Pro up to 1400MB/s, in addition to TB2 RAID arrays. And you can obviously boost RAM to 32/64GB in any of the Mac Pros, if the editing workload demands it.

    ^^I realize this may be overkill for the OP's needs, but unless you're on a really strict budget, the 2012 mini is compromised on many fronts.
     
  22. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo! Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Thanks guys. So, what I'm taking from this discussion is that a 2012 mac mini, even if upgraded, will not work well with FCPX.

    So, it appears that I will either get a used Mac Pro, or wait for the new Mac Minis, and once they released, buy a used 2015 Mac Mini that has the i7 chip, 16 gb of RAm and a SSB drive.

    I'm also going to take a look at Premier for video editing and see if maybe thats the way for me to go.

    Thank you guys, for the help!
     
  23. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    The real question is, how complex is the editing you're going to do? Are you going to use Final Cut Pro to it's full extent? Are you doing multiple layered post-production, are you cutting multi-camera video productions, are you doing 4K weddings in RAW mode...or are you just cutting single camera narrative?

    Right now, I'm cutting an 11 camera concert on an i7 computer with a Radeon 5770 video card from 2009. I'd upgrade the video card if it mattered but in the case of simple video editing, it really doesn't. If I were doing heavily layered post-production with a dozen alpha channels, and a whole bunch of 3D moves, I'd be straining the system. At the moment, I have 26 hours of concert video to cut, all of it sitting on a SATA 6 g/sec RAID and a significantly faster computer wouldn't make it go any quicker.
     
  24. BayouTiger

    BayouTiger Forum Resident

    Nearly all of the pushback I have seen for X is from folks that wanted it to work like the older version. Having spent little time in the old version I found it easy to transition. In all honestly either is way more than the average amateur needs and in fact most amateurs would be better served with something simpler. Most of the amateurs I know that do a lot of amateur - though very well done video use the consumer version of Vegas.
     
  25. Gary7704

    Gary7704 Chasing that sound….

    Location:
    New Jersey
    If I had to do it again, make the choice between FCP on a MacBook Pro or iMac or Mini, I still would put it on the MacBook Pro. I use FCP just for home editing and production, nothing elaborate. The MBP is easier to upgrade imho, portable. I just purchased another MBP (new) from Adorama in NYC for a great price. Check out their website, they have great prices and will match.
     
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