How many people with Rega tables and running a non Rega cartridge shim for VTA

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Upinsmoke, Feb 8, 2016.

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  1. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SE PA
    I was wondering how many people actually shim for VTA on Rega tables. I plan on using a Dynavector XX-2 which is about 4.5mm taller than the Rega branded cartridges (18.5mm vs 14mm). Have people that mounted Dynas on their tables gone the full distance or found that a 2mm shim is sufficient. Also have any used the adjustable one from Mitchell or just buy some of the Rega shims?

    Roy Gandy seems to feel that if his arms are mounted on a Rega table that VTA should never be adjusted. I don't know where to stand on this point to be honest. I've been living/crying/watching my hair go gray with my VPI Classic 2 and it's seeming infinite amount of VTA adjustments through it's tower. To my ears it took a ridiculous amount of cranking on the wheel to hear a real difference (good or bad). Now others say they can hear a fraction of a degree by only making extremely small differences (as in a few tics of the adjustment wheel) which I think is BS personally (but there really could be flying pigs too somewhere in the world - who am I to say definitively - just my opinions and experience).

    People experienced in this with their own Rega tables I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this too.
     
    russk and Long Live Analog like this.
  2. KOWHeigel

    KOWHeigel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Manlius, NY
    I use 2mm shim on mine for non-rega carts. I do remember reading something about the relationship between stylus rake angle (SRA) and VTA and that it take a large swing in VTA to effect a small change in SRA; notwithstanding that--I like to keep the cart close to parallel with my records and the 2mm shim allows me to achieve that.
     
  3. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    I used a 2mm with a Dynavector XX2 on a Rega P9. I wouldn't go higher.
     
  4. octaneTom

    octaneTom Man of Leisure

    I bought my P5 used — the former owner had installed one of those rotatable shim devices, so the height is adjustable in several increments. I installed a Dv20X2L on the arm when I got it and left the spacer where it was....I believe it's set at at 2mm right now, and the cartridge looks parallel to the record surface and sounds great so I've had zero desire to mess with playing with anything further.
     
  5. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SE PA
    Thanks all for the input. From what I was reading it seemed that even though math would dictate that the cartridge have a 4.5mm bump that most think that 2mm sounds best. From my own listening and testing on my VPI I found that it made little to no discernible difference to my ears.

    Sounds like you have one of the Mitchell Engineering adjustable ones Tom.

    EDIT: Pete Riggle makes a pretty cool looking adjustable one too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
    Long Live Analog likes this.
  6. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    My personal opinion is that a couple of mms, up or down, has no influence at all. The VTA or the rake angle is always decided by the VTF. One could argue that a higher pivot point is, in principle, lowering the VTF, and a lower point vice versa, but it will be neglectable IMO.
     
    Upinsmoke likes this.
  7. Spitfire

    Spitfire Senior Member

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    I use a total of 4 mm on my P5 with my Dynavector 20x2.
     
  8. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SE PA
    Did you run into any issues with the counterweight hitting the top of the case at 4mm? Or it is above 4mm that is the issue.
     
  9. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SE PA
    Well from my VPI experiences with VTA I believe I agree with you. Also the same frame of mind that the designer has regarding VTA. More than likely I'll probably leave it be and live with it for a while. Best thing to do is go by your own ears. Plus it's pretty easy with any of the methods to add or subtract these items.
     
  10. TeflonScoundrel

    TeflonScoundrel Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I'm using the 2mm shim with a Soundsmith Zephyr and I also used it with the Ortofon 2M Blue. I find it sounds better with the shim, but it's not night and day.
     
  11. Spitfire

    Spitfire Senior Member

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    I use a Michell Tecnoweight.
     
  12. I use the Incognito Easy Riser Rega VTA adjuster on my RB250 so I don't have to worry about shims. VTA on the Rega arms does not seem to be a hyper critical concern as long as you have it somewhat close to the correct adjustment. Some cartridge/stylus designs seem to be more "sensitive" than others---so your mileage may vary.
     
  13. octaneTom

    octaneTom Man of Leisure

    It's actually the official Rega one:
    http://www.rega.co.uk/adjustable-arm-height-spacer.html

    Looking at that and thinking about it, I believe it's set on the 4mm adjustment right now (assuming the spacer itself is 2mm and the "bumps" are 4, 6 and 8mm). I can double check at lunch time if you'd like. I run my TT with the cover on, and I've had no issues with the standard counterweight hitting the cover.
     
  14. deniall likes this.
  15. thegage

    thegage Forum Currency Nerd

    The Acoustic Signatures are the ones to get. Infinite adjustment and they allow you to keep the tonearm firmly mounted. I used them on a P5 with a 20x2. I can't speak to the dust cover clearance question as I also used the Groovetracer dropped counterweight.

    With respect to VTA adjustements (and apologies to those who can hear minute changes in height) most agree that you need at least a 4mm change at the tonearm base for any significant, audible change at the cartridge.

    If anyone wants some of the AS spaces I've got a bunch I'll never use again. I'll put 'em up on the trading forum.

    John K.
     
  16. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SE PA
    The Acoustic Signature looks like the best and easiest of the ones I've found.

    Now just nailing the price down on a Rega table. This is significantly more difficult than the VPI table. I had people offering ridiculous discounts on VPI and Rega everyone wants to sell it at retail.
     
    Long Live Analog likes this.
  17. Further to my last post, I should add that I had the Acoustic Signature spacer on my table in less than 5 minutes. Then quickly made 3 height changes w/3 different spacers. The current 2mm easily allows the lid to be closed on a P5 with Groovetracer Reference sub platter and Audio Technica AT150MLX.
     
  18. Combination

    Combination Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans
    I've always had a 2mm shim and always Dynavector of some sort. It's been a long time since I did any research on that stuff, but I'm pretty sure that 2mm is the safe bet, no matter what Dyna you're using. I'd be pretty shocked if you didn't get great sound.
     
  19. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SE PA
    Seems to be what most use. That's what I'm going to do when I get it.

    Speaking of which found a very sweet deal on a RP10. Good riddance VPI , welcome Rega!!!!!!!
     
  20. What is the main source of your dissatisfaction with the VPI?
     
    deniall likes this.
  21. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SE PA
    Don't ask. It would just go poof anyway.
     
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  22. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    I am really (unfortunately) particular about VTA and have a DV20X2L cartridge. I started out at precise level (+4mm on a rega deck) just to see what the "manufacturer recommended" position sounded like.
    Pretty good but after a while seemed to be missing something.
    I raised the tail another 2mm and the sound seemed to be sharper, more focused and resolute. +2mm from level has been my long term running position and it sounds fantastic. Do the math for rega applications.
    I did try the "dealer recommended" position of -2mm from level and the bass became heavy and excessive to the point of bogging the sound with mud.
    Some may call that good or acceptable but not my ears, not when you hear what clarity is achievable.
     
  23. RollinHard843

    RollinHard843 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    Fyi i saw on a different post that if counterweight isn't clearing the dust cover, you can always sticks little rubber feet on the table or cover (like the ones packaged with Schiit's products). I didnt have anything like that but i had some similar things on the back of picture frames. They do the perfect trick and save the 100-plus dollars on different counterweights.
     
    DeRosa, JPartyka and Upinsmoke like this.
  24. Long Live Analog

    Long Live Analog Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Tn. Mid South
    Welcome to the Rega family, you'll love the RP10:righton::cool:
     
    Gavinyl likes this.
  25. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    SE PA
    Thanks! Thats the easy part, now to take pictures of the VPI Classic 2 and get that sold.
     
    Long Live Analog likes this.
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