Careful with that UltraSonic Axe, Eugene!

Brian, it looks like we're near each other geographically. If you'd like, I'd be happy to come by with a bottle of ibuprofen.

 

I have very sensitive ears and SACDs make them hurt before I can even finish an album. I'm serious.

 

Do CDs and streaming have the same impact? That would limit your musical choices!

 

Talking of Audiodesk, there is a new PRO Model available now which looks interesting. It seems that quite a lot of parts have been upgraded according to details I've seen. Hopefully, these upgrades will address and banish the problems that some users of the Audiodesk have encountered!

 

Hi Bill,

I'm curious to know how you vac dry an LP that has been cleaned on the Klaudio on your Keith Monks? Won't the two sides be wet following US cleaning which means that one wet side will be wet 'face down' on the KM platter? My Klaudio, by the way, has to go back for service.

 

Hey, Satrus: couple things. First, KL advises against pulling a washed but not dried record from their machine, even though the later models allow for a wash only setting. (Apparently, doing this risks wetting the electronics, which seems like something they could design around). I've done it, but you do it at your own risk:- thus, for now, I've recommended that people buy a DIY ultrasonic kit (there are a variety of pre-made racks, spinners and set-ups that mate with generic US baths). On the wet side/dry side vac dry part, the solution for me was easy- with the Monks, I use two mats: after I pull a wet record from the US bath, and put it on the Monks, it gets vac dried- usually there is very little need to add much more rinse water because the record is still wet, and a point nozzle doesn't need the same degree of water to lubricate as a wand vac. When that side is done, I set the record aside, momentarily, on another platform -really just a large puck that touches only the label, and holds the record surface away from contacting anything; switch out mats on the Monks, and put the dry side down to vac the wet side. That second mat is the 'dry' mat. The work flow is pretty easy.

 

Hi Bill,

I see. The beauty of vac drying on the Monks or similar is that drying can be accomplished far more quickly than on the Klaudio. It takes just 3 passes on my VPI to thoroughly dry an LP side, maybe 15 seconds in total?

I set a minimum of 3 minutes on the Klaudio for drying but in my experience some LPs will need 4 minutes to get them totally moisture free. Besides, using the Monks for drying takes some of the 'stress' away from the Klaudio if you only use the US cycle!

 

I don't have the Audio Desk machine, but did quite a bit of research before purchasing the KLAudio. If you do the research, you'll find a lot of complaints about the quality of the Audio Desk machine. Lots of people have had issues and Audio Desk's support, according to many of these people, has been terrible. Again, just summarizing the research I found.

I don't like the idea of the Audio Desk machine primarily because there are just way too many breakable parts which increases the likelihood of requiring support at some point down the road. Plus, you are locked into using their fluids. If the company goes belly up in the near future, I think there's more risk with this machine.

The KLAudio, on the other hand, has had few reported issues and is pretty much universally reported to be built like a tank (which I can confirm). Honestly, it looks, feels and operates like it was built by some Apple engineers.

The only real downside to the KLAudio machine (other than cost, which is similar to the Audio Desk machine) is that it doesn't use brushes or chemicals. This is only an issue if there are lots of oils or similar gunk on a record. The Audio Desk might get these, but to me it's not worth the other negatives of that machine, particularly the reliability issues many have reported.

The ClearAudio Double Matrix Sonic *could* have been The One. Fully automated... check. Uses brushes... check. Ultrasonic cleaning... well, not really but something somewhat similar. Allows for usage with multiple fluids... check.

I say *could* have been, because I do think it comes up short in the automation department a bit. It just doesn't do quite a good enough job vacuuming to be used as a full automated solution. What I mean is that if I let the process run and come back a few minutes later, there are always wet spots where the album has sat on the applicator pads. Seems that the pads don't retract enough as the machine is finishing its vacuum cycle.

Not a huge deal for me since I put it in the KLAudio afterwards. One could also easily run it through a manual vacuum cycle before removing, so this is easily overcome. So maybe the ClearAudio *could* still be The One. It does get records pretty damn clean.

In fact, since I've added the ClearAudio I'm now only running records through a 2 minute ultrasonic cleaning cycle. It's too early to say exactly what effect I'm hearing by combining both methods since the sample size is pretty small right now (maybe a dozen records), but what I think I'm hearing is A LOT more detail in the high frequencies. I mean A LOT. Maybe too much! Dynamics seem to be more dynamic too.

Might be my imagination or maybe I just need to get used to what I'm hearing. Could also be the new SUT I'm trying out, but I think the new combined cleaning methods is at least partially at play here. I'll report more later as I've had a chance to assess a larger sample size.

 

The headaches were a one-time thing and only brought on after a bunch of days of non-stop cleaning. I suspect a normal level of cleaning wouldn't cause as many issues, though there does seem to be a body of research that says that there's something to this.

 

What I "need" (like I really 'need' this) is a rinse/vacuum only machine that does point source vacuuming. Then my flow would be perfect... clean in the ClearAudio, 2 minutes ultrasonic wash (no dry) then rinse followed by point source vacuum. This would be the ideal.

Any cheaper machines out there that could do this final rinse/vacuum that you know of?

 

I still don't see why you don't let it dry in the KLAudio and then just do a rinse & vacuum cycle on the Monks. Seems like it would be easier than using two mats.

 

Because the Monks vac may be pulling more crap out of the grooves than 'blow drying' on the KL. My objective isn't just to get it dry but to remove as much 'stuff' from the grooves as possible where 'stuff' = contaminants. Many of these LPs are old and often have been cleaned badly in the past, exposed to cigarette or other smoke, etc.

 

Brian, not that I know of as point nozzle type: there is Loricraft and Monks (they now have a less expensive model but I haven't tried it). There was an overbuilt Monks copy from Germany, the Odyssey, but now out of biz, not sure if Monks parts will fit it. You could buy used, but the trick will be to make sure the machine hasn't been abused; I know some Loricraft owners have tweaked their machines to improve performance.

 

I guess what I mean is that drying in the KLAudio would avoid the potential issues of damaging that machine's electronics. Then you could do a rinse and vacuum cycle on the monks without needing to change the mat.

 

Thank you Brian... THAT was great... and yes, I HAVE done the research and have heard all the probs.. Great point about being locked into buying the fluids... Heck, there was a guy on Analog planet who was having problems with his AD actually RUINING his vinyl!!! Can you imagine THAT??!!! wow, thats a tough one...

 

I would LOVE to see pictures of it.

 

One of these...

Plus this...

Been working like a charm for a few years running. When you can run used LPs in the ultrasonic bath for 60+ mins (if needed) there is nothing left behind on the surface. Then do a quick soap scrub and pure water rinse. New LPs get a 20 minute cycle. Its crazy the amount of paper dust and other manufacturing debris that comes off a brand new record. Its the one thing I have found in this hobby that leaves me no desire to change nor "upgrade".

 

Glad you werent having a stroke. Seriously.

My advice to anyone experiencing headaches that wont go away for 10 days is to go see a doctor. CVAs arent nice experiences to say the least.

 

Like your pics!
Exactly my path to vinyl heaven with the exception that I do the wash ahead of the Ultrasonic. My theory is that the wetting and scrub loosens stuff and makes it easier for the ultrasonic. It also keeps the US water cleaner for longer. Then I rinse and vacuum with distilled water. How many LPs do you US clean per bath? It's amazing how effective an inexpensive US cleaner can be!

 

My theory is to let the US do all the work and then do the final gloss on the RCM I have it setup to clean two LP's per bath.

 

I am set up to clean 3 LP's per bath using the Vinyl Stack system sold on eBay which totally rocks. If I had a bath as big as yours I'd be tempted to clean 4 per bath
What do you use to spin the records in the US cleaner?
How many LP's do you clean before changing the water?
I use a carbon filter when not activating the US and change water and filter every 24 records or so.

 

My bath is actually bigger than the one in the pic (21L). I built two mounting brackets for each side and mounted a disco ball motor on each. The pin on the motors is the exact size of an LP center hole. I threaded the pins and use rubber washers and a wing nut to fasten. I don't have a system for water change. I just monitor the level of debris in the water. Usually no more than a dozen LPs before a water change. I also use a non-toxic medical-grade cleaner in the bath that kills mold and breaks down organic matter.