The Laser Turntable

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Cake, Mar 24, 2013.

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  1. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    that's the point, there are formats that don't need physical contact.
     
  2. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Unfortunately, right now if you're going to play one of the bazillion vinyl records out there, you need to use a stylus and that involves physical contact. Unless you score one of these laser turntables, which appear to have a host of issues of their own.

    But like I said, I think an alternative using modern digital technology and imaging chips is certainly feasible at this point, and at a price lower than the laser turntable (and likely any esoteric stylus-based turntable).
     
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  3. ogbbv

    ogbbv Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Oslo
    What about a micro lens camera that films the groove and interprets the geometry. With automatic dust reduction ala Photohshop in real time. I guess that would need some computer horsepower but it might work. Give me a HDMI output too and I will retire my fireplace DVD.
     
  4. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    That's exactly what I'm talking about - you'd essentially use a microscope and a high-res image sensor (or more likely a pair, for proper stereoscopic imaging) like those used in a cell phone to scan the groove, then process it in realtime to convert the image to PCM audio at 24-bits, 192kHz.

    All sorts of processing could be run to remove dust and other obvious damage prior to conversion to PCM. And you could throw whatever equalization curve you want at it.
     
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  5. MikeyH

    MikeyH Stamper King

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    See the IRENE project. It's not just possible, it works!

    http://irene.lbl.gov/
     
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  6. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I've seen that before (in fact, it's come up in this thread before). Needs to be commercialized though. That's still very much a hacked-together lab project.
     
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  7. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    It is and for a specific purpose (getting a transfer out of otherwise unplayable material). Not for general playback. Big difference between archivist and audiophile here.
     
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  8. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Yeah, doesn't seem designed with high-fidelity in mind, although surely given today's technology that wouldn't be terribly difficult to achieve I'd think.

    Maybe I need to start puttering in my garage.

    Oh wait . . . I don't have a garage . . .

    :doh:
     
    timind likes this.
  9. Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
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  10. sharpnine

    sharpnine Forum Resident

    If you clean your records, keep your stylus clean and replace it at reasonable intervals, setup your turntable correctly, your records should not wear out by playing them. (And don't use ceramic cartridges). It's a myth that records wear out with proper care and handling. Even if you use a laser turntable, you still are handling the record, which is likely where more scratches and damage occurs (given the caveats above). I haven't heard one, but audio-focused reviews of laser turntables have shown that they sound worse than inexpensive normal turntables. The stylus dragging through the groove is not only not damaging the record, it is critical to keeping the inner groove clean and sounding its best.
    I think most of what people perceive as their records wearing out is actually the slow accumulation of particles, grime and mold in the grooves, which happens over time and pretty hard to prevent. Wet-cleaning the record usually brings it back sounding like new. I have bought thousands of used records and usually find that the record sounds much better after cleaning. Inner groove damage, the type caused by actually playing the record with a bad needle or turntable setup, is pretty rare.
     
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  11. JBStephens

    JBStephens I don't "like", "share", "tweet", or CARE. In Memoriam

    Location:
    South Mountain, NC
    Glass discs usually look like this, unfortunately. Thanks for the note to let me know about the damage, that's appreciated. :D

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
  12. Yes, I realise that age in general (such as handling them often) can eventually wear them as well, but not if you know how to handle and store vinyl correctly and only hold it by it's sides. With a laser turntable there is nothing at all touching the surface of the record. Obviously, this is how CDs work and CDs never wear no matter how many times you play them if handled properly and only held by the sides. This I have a lot of personal experience of.

    Also, you have to know a lot about vinyl playback systems (which you seem to do) to know all that stuff about using the right cartridges. I just can't help thinking that the surface would wear less (if at all) if a record is only played in one of these laser turntables. Any needle running over the grooves must deteriorate the surface a little if it's a record that's played a lot. I've heard so many people talk about how certain records they've owned have worn out over the years due to them being constantly played.

    I've never heard a laser turntable working, nor have I compared the sound with a traditional record player, so I can't really comment on the sound quality of a laser turntable.
     
  13. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Bah who cares, if you look after your records, they sure as hell are going to out live you!
     
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  14. JBStephens

    JBStephens I don't "like", "share", "tweet", or CARE. In Memoriam

    Location:
    South Mountain, NC
    ELP has (or had, anyway) demo CD's available, and I've heard them. In my opinion, the LT has a rather dull sound compared to a regular turntable. It just didn't reach out and grab me. But the "sound of vinyl" is a combination of many things. Platter, tonearm, cartridge, preamp, etc. and the LT has none of those. So it doesn't have the sonic "flavor" of a turntable.

    Although it does have its uses, and Mr. Chiba is certainly a knowledgeable engineer, what ultimately made me decide against the LT was the lack of tech support in the USA.
     
  15. 56GoldTop

    56GoldTop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhere, Ok
    That pic is really cool, funny and sad all at the same time.
     
  16. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Uh, that's what this whole thread is pretty much about. These have been around for about 20 years now, give or take a few.
     
  17. JBStephens

    JBStephens I don't "like", "share", "tweet", or CARE. In Memoriam

    Location:
    South Mountain, NC
    No. Just... NO.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. I started a new thread about this item as I couldn't find one that already exists... but obviously there was one. What you read was my opening post before my new thread was merged with this one.

    I was worried that this may cause confusion. I've only just found out that this laser turntable exists.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
  19. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Ahh, the joy of thread mergers. That explains it...

    Yeah, the laser turntable has never been particularly successful, and technologically I think it's obsolete now. I'm kinda surprised nobody has come up with a more-sophisticated digital version using modern digital imaging and processing, because in theory such a gadget could resolve a whole slew of issues, especially when it comes to damaged or exotic (quad, for example) vinyl.
     
    Billy Budapest likes this.
  20. There have been some experimental machines that to just that, but nothing that has entered mass production.

    It would be nice if someone could bring this to market.
     
  21. I like how the article calls the ELP turntable "new." I mean, they've been selling this thing since 1997, right? I believe it was based on the Finial turntable which was developed in 1988.
     
    sunspot42 likes this.
  22. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
  23. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    lol $15K!!

    Yeah, nah...Id rather watch a stylus track the groove anyway if I so feel like it. That thing would feel like putting plates away in a drawer after washing up. I HATE washing up!
     
  24. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Additionally, this playing on "killing your records"crap is just BS. Not if ya clean them and care for them and dont use junk TT's. The "records wear out"hyperbole is getting tiresome. Yes, technically its true, but in practicality heeding the above, a bunch of BS.
     
  25. I'm assuming that's a tongue 'n' cheek comment referring to the CD? :confused:
     
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