Led Zep: we didn't pinch Stairway to Heaven, but we were exceptionally talented

Exactly. You didn't hear of Duane Eddy suing The Beach Boys for nicking the intro riff for Surfin' USA from Movin' 'N Groovin'.





But you did from Chuck Berry...for the verses, though I wonder if anyone in the day actually made the connection. I mean aside from the Chuck Berry legal team.

 

I really doubt that was their mindset. The similarities to the songs you mention were discovered well before the internet.

 

So you're only motivation is if Spirit wins you can pump your chest and tell every body how right you were? Well that won't happen those two songs sound nothing alike! Spirit is out for the money which they never will get. And Know one will listen too you! Because hate is all you're after.

 

Pffft. This is such awful journalism, Boston.com.

As someone (an attorney) who has drafted and filed (read: served) many a complaint, and who has also drafted and filed answers, I'd like to offer the following.

When the Defendants (Zepp) admit in their Answer that "Led Zeppelin has been called one of the greatest bands in history and its members were and are exceptionally talented", they are simply repeating back, and agreeing with, a statement the Plaintiff (Randy's estate) made in its Complaint. When the plaintiff, in its complaint, says something nice about you, of course you admit it. Although I never recall a plaintiff lauding a defendant in its complaint.

It seems to me that if you state in a complaint that your opponents in a lawsuit are "exceptionally talented" musicians, you are impliedly setting the stage for an argument, and also informing the court, that while you claim you wrote the riff or melody to "Stairway", it wouldn't be unheard of for these "exceptionally talented" musicians to have come up with that same music on their own.

OK, what I just said may be a reach, and it could be that the Estate of Randy's attorneys complimenting Zepp does no harm at all, but I don't see how it helps their client.

Also, as is the case here, when defendants agree with one statement (usually one sentence) in a paragraph of a complaint, but disagree with all other sentences in that same paragraph, it is legal convention to admit the one statement you agree with by repeating it back in your answer, and then simply stating that you deny all other statements in the paragraph, as Zepp did here.

So, Led Zeppelin isn't bragging or in any way being dickish. Their attorneys are answering the complaint as attorneys normally do. And while Zepp are indeed great musicians, the estate of Randy attorneys need not write anything of the kind in their complaint against Zepp. I respectfully opine that the Estate of Randy attorneys do their client no favor in needlessly complimenting their client's opposition in court filings. Randy's attorneys have an ethical duty to zealously represent their client and, personally, I don't think painting Estate of Randy's opposition as geniuses is necessarily in line with that ethical duty.

Hell, in the 80s, Elvis Costello in Musician Magazine, called Led Zeppelin "charlatans and thieves". Why is Randy's estate telling the court that Zepp is über talented?

So to the extent you think Led Zeppelin or any of its members are arrogant a-holes, and I offer no opinion on this, that sort of demeanor is in no way reflected in Boston.com's reporting of what the court papers contain.

Disclaimer: I believe Led Zeppelin is awesome, and I haven't read any of the pleadings in this lawsuit.

 

I guess it's all about your perception. My perception is that its pretty obvious that Zeppelin stole a lot of other artists' work, yet people dismiss it or give them a pass. But if a band from the last 20 or so years sounds like anything like a band from the 60s or 70s, they are criticized as unoriginal and not considered talented.

If The Verve can lose to the Stones on Bittersweet Symphony, Led Zeppelin should be dead in the water.

 

Yeah maybe they can get their hands on those multi-tracks and play them in court and ruin them. That'd be great! Hopefully Plant's tour can get derailed too.

The only people vindicated here would be lawyers. Stairway to Heaven is a transcendent masterpiece. Show some respect.

 

Isn't there a statute of limitation on cases like this? It was some time ago...

 

Yeah, Jimi Hendrix gives you a nickname, you just go with it...

 

Here's another one for the Zep bashers to wet their pants over .......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartoone_(album)

 

Page is playing on this album! See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartoone_(album)

I've always imagine that Page sat down and worked out Stairway as an attempt to write 'one of those', with that A minor tonality and descending bassline, a la 'Taurus' and just as much 'Ice Cream Dreams'. I can't say I consider it plagiarism as such, these things can get ridiculous.

 

I know, that's why I posted it.

 

Yep <snigger> on a par with:

 

So Page in 1966 is backstage riffing Davey Graham at Yardbirds gigs and Randy C. makes note of that terrific progression...maybe so? maybe not.
This lawsuit won't make it very far...
I hope more people check out the 1st 4 Spirit records and place them higher among the 60's artists than they have before.

Love
Spirit
Doors

 

You can snigger at me all you want I don't respect your opinion at all.

 

These examples are not randomly pulled out of the air - "Whole Lotta Love" is well documented elsewhere. For "Trampled Underfoot" and "Immigrant Song" see below:

http://turnmeondeadman.com/led-zeppelin-plagiarism-trampled-under-foot/


http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread923703/pg1

Pity I didn't randomly mention "In My Time of Dying", "Since I've Been Loving You", "How Many More Times", "Bring It On Home", "The Lemon Song" and "Dazed And Confused" as well...

http://www.musictimes.com/articles/...tairway-to-heaven-that-led-zeppelin-stole.htm

 

It has "the cough," but the channels are reversed.

 

Jay Ferguson wrote Fresh Garbage (and, just to clarify in the context of this thread, by that I don't mean he wrote a previous song that sounded quite like it that Randy Califonia pinched a bit of, I actually mean Jay Ferguson wrote it!)

 

I haven't seen the pleadings either, but it seems the doctrine of laches would apply. The time to bring this suit was 1971 when the record was published.

 

Wonderfully delusional as expected.

If the ruling DOES go in favour of Spirit, it'll be interesting to hear how all the Zepheads try to talk their way out of it........

 

There is no comparison between the Verve case and this one. Have you heard the original orchestral "Last Time"?

Maybe if Allen Klein was still around and representing Spirit, Zeppelin would need to worry. However in the real world there's clearly no case to answer.

 

Isn't Know One a poster on this board?

 

Lol! He pinched the opening bars, note for note. There is nothing about "Stairway" that is transcendent. Still, on the bright side, when you're next in a guitar shop that has a "No Stairway" sign, you can at least say "I'm not playing Stairway, it's TAURUS mate."

 

Want to knock Zeppelin for lifting song elements from other artists and not crediting? Sure, fine. Just be prepared to be consistent. You'll be busy a long time, and you're going to hit just about every one of your favorite musicians.

Want to say, "Well, Zeppelin did it a lot more!" Okay, make the case. Sure. Once you're done bashing all your other favorite musicians that have done exactly the same thing, you can bash Zeppelin X amount of times more.

But to those who say Zeppelin was "unoriginal" or somehow totally fraudulent...that's pure insanity. As the most spectacular for instance of this: Yeah, they took elements of Jake Holmes' song and some of the lyrics and used it to make "Dazed and Confused". There's so much more going on in that track than what can be traced back to Holmes. The musical interplay between the musicians, the dynamics of the arrangement, the spectacular talents on display...unoriginal? That's just such an unreasonable thing to say it's laughable.

I get it that people are cranky about Zeppelin not crediting source material, but some folks are willing to take the argument so far into La La Land that it's hard to take them seriously.

 

What's to talk anyone's way out of? If a judge rules in favor of Spirit, that means a judge ruled in favor of Spirit. Anyone with ears can hear the very slim relationship between the songs. It's ridiculous to characterize it as the "theft" of a song on the level of "Dazed and Confused." Chicago's "25 or 6 to 4" contains virtually the same riff as Zeppelin's arrangement of "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" (as well as many other songs - it's a very common motif), but I never hear anyone barking at Robert Lamm over it. It's almost certain that Lamm had heard the Zeppelin track before he wrote "25 or 6 to 4", but I'd never think to accuse him of ripping it off, because it's stupid to do so.

If Spirit wins the case, Led Zeppelin will still be Led Zeppelin. All four of them will still be four of the richest MFer's in the music business, their albums will still sell hundreds of thousands easily, and some people will still spit on the ground anytime their name is mentioned, their rage being unsatiated and insatiable. It won't give you five seconds of actual satisfaction. You'll be here instantly to continue bitterly arguing that Zeppelin are incorrigible thieves and it will make no difference whatsoever to their stature or your happiness. Enjoy!