Opinions Needed for a turntable

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by James H., Feb 10, 2016.

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  1. James H.

    James H. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Runnemede, NJ
    I really need some help here.

    I am going to upgrade and buy a new turntable in the near future.

    I have a list of turntables with cartridge that are within my budget. But I really need some input on what I want to purchase. My present turntable is a Technics Quartz Direct Drive Automatic Turntable System SL-QD33.

    Rega-RP1 Performance Pack w/ Ortolan OM5e
    Music Hall MMF 2.3 w/ Music Hall Spirit moving magnet cartridge
    Pro-Ject RPM1 Carbon w/ Rumiko Pearl Cartridge
    Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Espirit w/ 2M Blue Stylus
    Thorens TD-170-1 w/ Ortofon OMB10 phono cartridge
    Music Hall MMF 2.2 w/ Music Hall Tracker moving-magnet phono cartridge

    I will also take other recommendations to help me out. I am willing to listen to both positive and negative feedback.

    Thank you in advance.
     
  2. James H.

    James H. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Runnemede, NJ
    Man! You guys are tough. After 2 and a half days, I can't get one opinion for help.
     
  3. Greg Carrier

    Greg Carrier Senior Member

    Location:
    Iowa City
    I haven't checked out everything on the list, but I'm very happy with my Rega RP1. It was solid from day 1, and has only gotten better with Groovetracer mods and a Nagaoka mp-110 cart. Nothing negative to say about this turntable.
     
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  4. maskdbagel

    maskdbagel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    I don't have experience with Thorens, but I played with Music Hall a decent amount when I was first shopping for a "serious" turntable and at the time ended up with Pro-Ject, just because I actually had the opportunity to get hands on with it. Since then, I've started working a lot with Rega components and even buying wholesale from Rega for my own projects. A couple of things I really appreciate about Rega that give them a clear edge to me.
    First, they do an excellent job at all the things they do, and they do more than just turntables. Their cartridges are overpriced but perfectly respectable, their speakers are great, their other components are top notch, and I feel like the extra understanding of doing great work in all parts of the chain works to their advantage. And then the other thing is that their builds are very, very simple, which means easy service, easy upgrades, and easy mods. I don't buy Gandy's "lower mass is always better" theories fully, but their tonearms could be strapped to a live salmon and sound great, and they just kind of do simple and do it right.
    Others will have other opinions and experiences, which is cool, but that's mine, at least. For what it's worth, I think you'd get a better return for your money getting a better cartridge for an RP1 than you would by springing for the performance pack. But that all depends on the kind of deal you're able to get. The performance pack certainly isn't garbage, and the Ortofon cartridge is pretty decent too.
     
  5. Hawklord

    Hawklord Senior Member

    I don't have an opinion because I've never heard any of those, so all I could do is parrot other opinions.
    My Rega is almost 40 years old and I still use it but I can't comment on new Rega. I also own an MMF 9.1 and like it as well but I can't comment on the other MMF's. Sorry.
     
    CCrider92 likes this.
  6. When selecting a turntable/cartridge, just remember, the record companies of old and even the ones that currently make vinyl records don't use any super-whammy high-dollar turntables, carts, amps and speakers. They used mostly commercial equipment or home type electronics being only interested in how a record would play on the radio and the home hi-fi set-ups. In other words, don't spend a lot of money on a turntable to hear sounds that the record companies didn't consider. Depending on what type of music you play and who manufactures the records, get a turntable that is equal in quality to what the vinyl record manufacturers use. Spending over $500. on a turntable set-up is excessive. If it looks cheap, it is cheap in quality.
     
  7. dmckean

    dmckean Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Records are cut on a $12,000 cutting lathe, that's your limiting factor.
     
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  8. maskdbagel

    maskdbagel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Not trying to be contrary, but what is the idea here? That $12,000, specifically, is the mark between reasonable an excessive expense, or that a cutting lathe makes as much of a difference as the other parts of the production chain, or something else? Not trying to pick a fight or anything, I just want to understand what you mean.

    Bottom line, in my opinion, is that dollar amount shouldn't be trusted too far, or you're asking to be made a sucker. Assuming that some pair of Wilson monstrosities (yeah, I said it...) really sounds ten (or fifteen or twenty-five or fifty) times better than some of its more "modestly priced" counterparts, or that the $9000 turntable with the great website has to sound better than a $900 component from someone smaller is just dangerous gullibility.

    I understand that spending five times as much as the next guy will do marvelous things for your ears, and we all want to have something nice and have our expenditures validated in our own minds. But sometimes I wonder if we (and I do intentionally use the word "we" here - I'm by no means without fault) set ourselves up to be taken advantage of way more than we need to be.
     
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  9. dmckean

    dmckean Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    I wasn't really trying to say that at all. But $500 is just some arbitrary number. There was so much wrong with AutomatedElectronics' post that it was hard to know where to begin.
     
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  10. Recording lathes are expensive, period. Are there any cheap ones? Recording lathes don't care what they are cutting. They could be cutting a lacquer for a record to be used as a give-away sampler or the same lathe can be used to cut an audiophile record to be sold for $50.
    What is important is that the finished record plays as intended on the kind of turntable as intended.
     
  11. maskdbagel

    maskdbagel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Gotcha. Yeah, I think we're thinking the same thing: $500 is pretty arbitrary to my mind as well, and the focus should be on learning about what the qualities are of what we're considering, not drawing conclusions based solely on a dollar amount.
     
  12. maskdbagel

    maskdbagel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    I think we're all pretty much in agreement here, at least on this part. I'd be interested in seeing more information about the caliber of equipment behind major recordings now. Or, to put it another way, it would be interesting see how many of the records I love and think sound great really are produced on a chain of "home type electronics" as opposed to super-whammy high-dollar stuff. (Acknowledging, of course, that my idea of high-dollar is my own, and others have other ideas...) :)

    Point being, there could be some serious gear further up the chain (mics, monitors, board, amps... heck, instruments) that all works together to produce sounds that, even if mastered or further engineered or whatever on something "consumer grade" could still come to life more completely on truly great end systems than on something middlin'.
     
  13. Of course $500. is an arbitrary figure. I'm just saying that you don't have to go overboard. What is important is what sounds best to YOU. Just because one turntable set-up is more expensive than another doesn't mean that it will sound any better to you. There is so much that maskdbagel obviously can't comprehend .
     
  14. maskdbagel

    maskdbagel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    I appreciate the attack. Really getting into the spirit of the forum here. :) For what it's worth, I couldn't agree more with this (especially the last sentence, seriously - trying to learn something new every day...). There's a lot of middlin' gear out there that costs a ton more than some truly great stuff.
     
  15. DigMyGroove

    DigMyGroove Forum Resident

    As a Mid-Fi guy who has put together a couple of very nice systems (to my ears) while not spending enormous amounts of money mainly by purchasing quality used gear and cables, I'll contribute this experience.

    I have a Music Hall MMF-7 with a Goldring moving coil cartridge and am very happy with it's sound. Last year by way of helping out an elderly friend who needed a new turntable but had a very tight budget, I ordered her the basic U-Turn Audio Orbit which comes with a Shure MM cartridge and cost $204 delivered. Before bringing it over to her house I set it up so I could be sure everything worked, plus I wanted to hear how it compared to my Music Hall. When I bought the MMF-7 in 2004 it averaged $1,200, but I found it via a web search for $900 new (my first internet retail coup). So I listened to the two tables playing the same LP through the same amp and speakers. My impression... no, the $200 U-Turn didn't match my Music Hall's performance but it was really, really good. I was very impressed with what could be purchased for a couple of hundred dollars.

    I don't have extensive experience hearing all kinds of turntables, but this experience taught me that you can buy something pretty nice these days without spending a fortune, and you can always upgrade. Heck, Barnes & Noble is now carry the U-Turn Orbit Pkus with it's acrylic platter and a better cartridge. With the coupons they send out it can be had with a 15 to 20% discount and free shipping, so if I was in the market to buy it's an option I'd consider as well.
     
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  16. BIGGER Dave

    BIGGER Dave Forum Resident

    What is the max you want to spend? Clearaudio Concept is a good choice at around $1,400. VPI Scout is good at about $2,200. (Prices do not include cartridge).
     
  17. whaleyboy

    whaleyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I have a Project Debut III and love it. I also have a VPI Classic which I love more but I think that both are fun to use and the Project table has been trouble free for several years including (probably) rough handling because it lives in what we call the rumpus or play room system where guests and my wife handle it. The point is that it has been robust, it is nice to use and there are upgrades available for it that are not very expensive.
     
  18. Colin M

    Colin M Forum Resident

    With that menu I would suggest the Project Esprit is the best combination, certainly the best of the cartridges. I would recommend that at this level you buy locally and preserve the option to easily swap a turntable over as quality can be a bit variable.

    I've got back to vinyl via the Esprit (with 2M Bronze), it's speed control is excellent and the convenience of changing speeds by switch should be born in mind. Be interested in how quickly you remember that there is no auto arm pickup on these.

    However, after upgrading my phono amp, has revealed significant bearing rumble. So I would say that all the above turntables may prove to be a two year stopgap. Have you looked at the 2M Blue "Plug & play" as an option on your Technics?
     
  19. James H.

    James H. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Runnemede, NJ
    First of all, thanks for the honest opinions. It's helping me decide. I need the opinions here because there are not many hi fi places that sell quality turntables in the Philadelphia area. I am checking out a place tomorrow, because I really like to physically check out the product before I make a purchase.

    If you checked out the original post, my list when I checked online was in the price range of $300.00-$750.00. I feel that's the budget to get a good quality product without breaking the bank. My Technics TT has a p mount cartridge and I want to have the option to upgrade by using the 1/2 mount cartridge.

    Again, thank you for replying. I hope there are more replies coming if I have to come to a decision based on the replies here if I can't physically hear or see it if I have to buy it online.
     
  20. James H.

    James H. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Runnemede, NJ
    Is the 2M Blue "Plug & play" a p mount cartridge?
     
  21. ceedee

    ceedee Forum Resident

    Location:
    northern england
    no
     
  22. deniall

    deniall Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Out of that list I'd go the Rega. Pro-Ject tables have far too many issues with motor rumble for me to want to own another one (owned a Debut Carbon).

    However, I strongly encourage you to save a bit more and get an RP3. It's miles better than the RP1 and you can add the PSU and a better cart when it suits. Just my 2c.
     
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  23. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    I'd go for the Rega, and I'm not a big Rega fan. I'd guess it has the best platter. i don't like the MDF or metal platters. You could probably sell the Rega easier than the others. Thing is, it would help to also know what cartridge you like. If you knew that, you could factor in which one has the best tonearm for the cartridge you want to use. You hear some complaints with all tables, so read up.
     
  24. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    No one has addressed how much of an improvement any of these entry level tts will provide over the op's Technics. It seems to me one of the most limiting factors would be the p-mount cart. What are some good p-mounts?
     
  25. Wow! The Philly area, the heart of the Philly soul and the home of the pop sounds from Cameo/Parkway doesn't have many hi-fi places which sell quality turntables? I'd bet Dick Clark would turn over in his grave if he knew that! You don't have to spend a lot to get a tt which sounds great. Almost any tt above a Crosley or any of the junk tts Target or WalMart sells is better than most.
    Again, the people that make records don't use high-dollar turntables or cartridges and they probably don't buy high-dollar Jico stylii either. Ask them what THEY use.
    Here's one thing that is important, a pitch control. Records are not always mastered at the proper speed and the pitch may be off. The tt speed can be rock steady, but if the record was cut at the wrong speed, you're out of luck if you don't have a pitch control. If you can read music and have a good ear, you can tell when the speed is off.
     
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