RCA digital vs toslink optical

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by SKATTERBRANE, Feb 13, 2016.

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  1. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    What are the general pros and cons of each. When connecting a CD player to an outboard DAC, assuming decent cables, which generally sounds better? My only experience has been using RCA digital cable between my CDP and my CDR. I will be buying an outboard DAC soon.
     
  2. DigMyGroove

    DigMyGroove Forum Resident

    I can't recall all the specifics of the how and why, but had the same query you did last year when I bought my first DAC. There is a lot of info here on the Forum explaining the pros and cons of each, just search a bit.

    In the end I found the sound better with the RCA digital coaxial cable, but the Toslink sounded good too. I have my Airport Express using that connection (which is it's only option), and my CD player connected with the digital coaxial cable. After using a few different ones I had in hand I bought the Silver Resolution SPDI/F model from signalcable.com, it sounds great. I also use their Silver Resolution phono and analog interconnects as well as a digital specific power cable in my system, all are great values.
    Silver Digital Cable ยป
     
  3. Bubbamike

    Bubbamike Forum Resident

    Toslink is limited to 24/96K, Coax can do DSD.
     
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  4. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Yeah I was under the subconscious impression that RCA was superior for technical reasons.
     
  5. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    So processing SACD would definitely benefit with RCA then.
     
  6. Kal Rubinson

    Kal Rubinson Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    You cannot do DSD over coax unless you use D.O.P to cloak it as a PCM file to fool S/PDIF. However, since Toslink is also S/PDIF, it might be possible to use it, too. I don't bother with either so I have not tried it.
     
  7. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    ...and it also seems like a right royal pain in the ****...!
     
  8. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Well I am not looking for any PITA things, have enough already.
     
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  9. Bubbamike

    Bubbamike Forum Resident

    SACD as DSD, would require HDMI.
     
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  10. Mike-48

    Mike-48 A shadow of my former self

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    From what I've heard and experienced, relative results will depend on several factors. First, the quality of the interconnects. There are good and bad Toslink cables, and good and bad S/PDIF (RCA) ones. If you use the latter, make sure the cable (and maybe the connectors) are designed for 75-ohm digital audio, and not for analog audio. There is a difference. One source for inexpensive 75-ohm cables is Blue Jeans Cables.

    Though most Toslink circuits go only up to 96/24 (which to my ears is plenty), there are some units that also work with 192/24. But they are rarer than those limited to 96/24. Toslink does provide electrical isolation. Some people find that helps in their systems. I have tried it a couple of times, and it didn't make a difference in my systems.

    Results will also depend on the quality of digital senders in the source and digital receivers in the DAC. IMO, the only way to know which sounds better in your system is to get (maybe borrow) both types of cable and compare them yourself.
     
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  11. Captain Wiggette

    Captain Wiggette Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Assuming decent cables there should be no difference.

    If you have ground loop problems, a non-electrical connection (toslink) can provide advantages. And while in theory optical cables should be able to go extremely long distances with no interference at all, toslink cables are usually plastic and actually signal degradation is worse over long distances than a basic coax cable (this is not a high quality optical cable). Coax is much sturdier a connection, a much sturdier cable, and can be field terminated very easily. Toslink cables are fragile and prone to breaking. Unless coax is not available, I always prefer a basic coax.

    Over reasonably short distances, there should be no difference from a cabling perspective. There may be differences in the circuitry of the inputs or outputs of the devices which may be measurable, but whether audible is debatable. You can easily (and cheaply) try both and see whether you hear any differences, and my guess is you probably won't.
     
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  12. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    So, would I realize all the advantages of SACD and DVD-A using a good quality 75 ohm RCA cable from my universal DVD unit to an outboard DAC?
     
  13. Kal Rubinson

    Kal Rubinson Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    D.O.P. is DSD but in a PCM package so that s/pdif will convey it to a DSD DAC. Stereo only, though.
     
  14. Scott in DC

    Scott in DC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Why don't more companies make use of AES EBU connections? From what I have read it is superior to coax or Toslink.

    Scott
     
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  15. Kal Rubinson

    Kal Rubinson Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Define the "advantages" you are looking for.
     
  16. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Stereo is all I am interested in, no surround sound for me (I have yet to go to a concert where they let me sit within the band/orchestra).
     
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  17. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    The full sound quality/resolution/dynamics/attack-decay advantages that SACD and/or DVD-A offers over redbook CD.

    I am not happy with my Marantz CD6004, nor my Tascam CD200, nor Tascam CD-RW900SL. And not with previous CDPs such as Rega Apollo, Philips 960, a high end Marantz universal DVD player from around 2005 (don't remember exact model), and a host of others.

    I recently bought and yet to receive a PIONEER ELITE DV-79AVi universal player and a Maverick Audio D2 DAC. I do not expect the Pioneer to do the trick with its older built-in DAC, especially because I have never heard a built-in DAC I liked. I have NEVER heard an outboard DAC.

    I have a few SACDs and a few DVD-As and I am hoping this setup will elevate my listening pleasure to at least approach analog in some nice familiar ways.

    I do not have the money to go all out and, to tell you the truth, I do not TRUST that high end digital will do what it promises as NO digital has held up to its promises. I have never been disappointed in high end analog. I simply do not want the bother of playing records anymore.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2016
  18. Kal Rubinson

    Kal Rubinson Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    As long as it is a DSD DAC.
    Not a valid argument. There is always the sound of the space which shapes the entire experience and which cannot be properly conveyed in 2 channels.
     
  19. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ

    Oh-oh, I suspect the Maverick is NOT a DSD DAC?
    If you are talking about the sound of the room, then I would agree, but most surround sound seems to want to put various instruments to the side and rear of the listener. I remember analog delay units with rear speakers that did an okay job of what you are referring to.
     
  20. Doug Sclar

    Doug Sclar Forum Legend

    Location:
    The OC
    I have, but that's not what I want to hear when I listen to a recording.
     
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  21. Kal Rubinson

    Kal Rubinson Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I think it depends on the recording and on the genre. The vast majority of the multichannel recordings I own (several thousand now) attempt only to recreate the sound of the venue and do not distribute sounds willy-nilly around the listener. The delay units, analog or digital, and even the digital synthesis systems are inferior to real discrete MCH done right.
     
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  22. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    So, does anyone know if the Maverick is a DSD processing DAC? I cannot find anything about that on their site.
     
  23. murrays

    murrays Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Pro for optical connection: total galvanic (electrical) isolation, avoids hum loops and noisy grounds.
     
  24. Sevoflurane

    Sevoflurane Forum Resident

    Regarding processing SACD / DSD over PCM via an external DAC: The latter will work if you have a DSD file on a computer / server, assuming that your DAC and the software involved supports it. You will NOT get anything resembling DOP from an SACD player's coaxial or optical output when playing an SACD, so if you expect to use an external DAC to improve SACD playback using this route then you will be disappointed.

    The only approved way of getting DSD from an SACD to an external DAC is via HDMI due to the requirement for encryption. SPDIF outputs are typically disabled during SACD playback.

    Ways round this? Some SACD players can be modified to permit DoP via SPDIF (Oppo 103 with Audiopraise Vanity mod), and the SACD layer of an SACD can be ripped using a suitably old PlayStation 3. Not sure if there are HDMI de embedders that can output DoP.
     
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  25. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Okay, I do not play through a computer. I do not rip to a computer. I really do not understand the technical aspects here. I will ask the question in a different way:

    Using the PIONEER ELITE DV-79AVi universal player and a Maverick Audio D2 DAC: playing a SACD through the Pioneer's analog audio out vs. playing a SACD through the Pioneer's RCA digital out into the Maverick's RCA digital in and then back out through the Maverick's analog out, is EITHER one processed as DSD to analog? Or are both processed the same except for the possible quality of the D to A conversion?

    Is it possible that the external DAC would degrade the sound going through the RCA digital connection? Or will I get a better sound playing SACD and DVD-A through this DAC rather than using the internal DAC?

    I guess the reason I am confused is I see SACDs that have a DSD label, so I am thinking SACD is a DSD file in physical form. Maybe that is where I am going wrong on this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2016
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