RCA digital vs toslink optical

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by SKATTERBRANE, Feb 13, 2016.

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  1. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Well each and every mod, change or new piece I added to my analog system made a difference, good or bad, it was immediately obvious. Really none of the digital equipment I have switched has made enough difference to matter. And so, why is it I feel "aaaah, this is nice" whenever I hear a decent analog system, and never get that reaction with any digital system I listen to? I have no idea. I like to use food references, it is the difference between mom's homemade cookies and Chips Ahoy.
     
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  2. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Yes, I have heard a lot about that unit here. It is more highly regarded than my Marantz CD6004?
     
  3. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    I think you're overcomplicating to be honest. I gave up vinyl five years ago and haven't looked back. I just sit back, enjoy the music as I've always done and never once worried about this thing called digital.
     
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  4. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    I can't say that I have a list of what DACs are used in which players handy. It seems that I recall hearing that the better or perhaps original Sony units had DSD DAC and filtering for SACD and PCM for CD. It would be of no surprise to me that they would have likely used the best DSD conversion possible and the crappiest PCM converter available to make comparisons favorable for them. It would be fair to say that I hate just about everything about Sony. All they seem to do is to try and corner the market on new formats. It is sickening to witness. I can also see where it would be cheaper to use a single hybrid DAC chip or a DSD to PCM converter ahead of a decent PCM DAC and why most other brands would opt to do so. That would seem to defeat the "benefit" of a bitstream format, but then I was never sold on it and I do love the sound of the 24/192 PCM Wolfson DACs.
    -Bill
     
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  5. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I can still enjoy music, but it does not engage me or invite me to listen. I sold my vinyl and record player over 16 years ago. I do not regret it because I hated the hassle. But I miss the experience that digital seemingly cannot provide. If that is so, then after this one last attempt, I will surrender for the last time, and just learn to live with microwaved steak, Chips Ahoy and Diet Coke.
     
  6. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Maybe seek out a player with Wolfson's WM8740 DAC onboard. I have two, and both are excellent. It's a very popular chip and albeit that it's over a decade old, still very much in use (Cambridge use it in their 752BD, I think the CXU uses it too and Astell and Kern popped one in their Jr portable player).
     
  7. back2vinyl

    back2vinyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Contrary to what's been said earlier in the thread, you CAN feed the digital SACD output of an SACD player directly into a DAC, so by-passing the player's internal DAC.

    It's true that an SACD player will only output through its HDMI output. This presents a problem because no DAC has an HDMI input. But all you need to do is buy an adapter that has an HDMI input and an S/PDIF output. These adapters are readily available and aren't expensive and are called HDMI de-embedders.

    Using one of these, you can easily hook up an SACD player to an external DAC and play back 2-channel PCM. Admittedly the de-embedder can't handle DSD but most SACD players don't output DSD anyway so it's a bit of a non-issue.
     
  8. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I'll look into it, thank you. I have a lot of experimenting to do.
     
  9. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Senior Member

    Have you ever been to a concert where everything except the band is shrouded in thick velvet?
     
  10. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    After 16-17 years of this torture, you should be getting some clues.

    Namely, Thelma Houston won't be properly resurrected in your listening space regardless of how many DV79s or Oppos or DACs or Marantzes or Wolfsons you throw at the problem.

    She might, however, if you unload about $5K and return to vinyl.

    If ever there was an apples-and-oranges comparison (based on your foodisms), it's vinyl and digital. You can't make one sound like the other.

    Each can be plenty tasty on their own, however.
     
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  11. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    No, usually the audience has too many members where their behavior greatly distracts from the performance.
     
  12. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    I prefer apple pie to orange sherbet comparisons, thank you.
     
  13. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    So all these claims where such and such a digital product "sounds like analog" is just 1000s of reviewers lying all this time? Or are they those who cannot tell the difference between Dr Pepper and Diet Dr Pepper? It seems the greatest compliment a reviewer can give a digital playback unit it that it sound most analog-like. I think there is a reason for that.
     
  14. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    I dunno; don't pay much attention to reviews anymore.

    But, like other enthusiasts, you have a hard-earned viewpoint or philosophy of The Way Things Oughta Be. I think only you can resolve your needs, despite well-meant advice here. From folks who have OTHER hard-earned viewpoints and philosophies of The Way Things Oughta Be.

    I'm a little more flexible maybe; I don't adhere to any philosophies regarding anything. But from the outside looking in, I'd say it's a sure bet you will unload that DV79 and DAC soon after they arrive.
     
  15. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    If the DAC improves the sound of the CD6004, I will keep it. I am inclined to agree with you on the DV79.
     
  16. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    Well, theoretically, that should happen; that's why outboard DACs exist.

    Though I've never heard a Maverick product. (And am skeptical about something branded "Tube Magic")

    Make sure to try it on the DV79 as well. Pioneers of that vintage are highly regarded for their transports, might make a mild positive difference.

    But what do I know, I had the nerve to unload my vinyl. :laugh:
     
  17. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    Oh by the way...

    You do realize to play back DVD-As you will need to connect the 79 to a TV, right?

    Many menu choices on the discs, all of which are authored differently.

    Just sayin'...
     
  18. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Well my first experiment will be to use the analog out to my preamp and the digital RCA out to the DAC and then the DAC's tube out to the same preamp. I will compare the SACD and DVD-A titles through the analog outs I have with their CD counterparts through the DAC (sometimes it is the same disc, other times it will be separate discs).
     
  19. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Dammit! I was hoping to simply play the DVD-A like I would any CD, insert and hit "Play". My TV may not have another input for me. I am using one input for Dish and the other for my Bluray.
     
  20. Kal Rubinson

    Kal Rubinson Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Yes, many do defeat the "benefit" of a bitstream or a PCM format. No player (below $10K) uses more than one DAC although some external DAC boxes do. Sony certainly does NOT use dual DACs but deal with it by filtering, as you say.
     
  21. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    Well...

    No guarantees, but based on the Pioneer universals I've had, you might be able to get away with setting up the player (TV hookup is a must at least for this) to strictly send 2-ch signal out thru analog for both SACD and DVD-A (there should be dedicated 2-ch analog outs on that 79).

    And then hope to get lucky, hit "Play" on most DVD-As and get what you want. Works with my King Crimson DVD-As. But again, the big variety of discs out there are authored differently.
     
  22. SKATTERBRANE

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Well I have a composite (yellow) video input I can use to view the menu. I as SOOO looking forward to hearing my King Crimson DVD-A stereo section through something other than my Vizio blueray and TV audio out. I really like the CDs of this series, and I am hoping the DVD-A stereo will sound even better.
     
  23. murrays

    murrays Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    My take on that is: One man's epiphany is another man's hype.
     
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  24. Sevoflurane

    Sevoflurane Forum Resident

    Regarding HDMI de embedders, yes, they can be used to extract PCM from HDMI. There are a few threads around in this forum where people have used them (I haven't). The OP was asking about getting DSD from his SACD IIRC. I haven't read a report yet of someone using this method to get DoP from an SACD. Having looked at a few commercially available de embedders, some of them will only output 16bit / 44.1/48K audio, which wouldn't satisfy the OP's desire to get a higher standard of audio off his SACDs. From memory, getting a Hi Res (176/24) PCM from an SACD wasn't that easy (Edit: Indeed it was back2vinyl who has posted above, search SACD ripping for the thread).
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
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  25. DigMyGroove

    DigMyGroove Forum Resident

    The Pioneer should not disappoint you. For CD play it sounds virtually the same as my Rega Apollo outputting to the Schiit Bitfrost Uber DAC. If I'd had the Pioneer before acquiring the Rega and the DAC I would have been very happy with it and stopped looking for other options. There are four settings you can choose from in the set up menu for CD play, thus far standard works for me. The SACD playback is outstanding and DVD Audio is very nice as well, though my ears prefer SACD.

    When I got the Rega Apollo I figured I would just use it direct to the amp. I was wrong, the DAC made a significant difference for the better. I use the Rega for all my CD playing mainly because I prefer the ergonomics of it's lift lid design over the Pioneer's typical drawer mechanism, though the Pioneer's is very smooth and quiet. In a way putting a CD in the Apollo is a bit like putting a record on my turntable, and that's good.
     
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